Ignite: Discussion
Transcript
some viewers may find the following video disturbing viewer discretion is advised hey everyone welcome back to board games unlike and we're doing a no run through review for ignite uh this is uh one of my newest games that i got off kickstarter i went through it looked like development hell from what i remember through all the updates they were having quite a few issues um but it is a deck building skirmish game uh which resides in their fantasy world and if you're a fan of the channel then you know probably one of the reasons why we're doing a no run through review it's because because we hate fantasy games because yeah i hate i you know what brad and cat i don't know why i keep trying to make skirmish games work i i it's your toxic trait and they sound so great in theory i i feel like i should like them but every skirmish game i end up really not liking uh which is a little harsh on this this game is just um boring like that's that's really kind of what it comes down to and skirmish games should be quick fast-paced and uh usually it's either they're too simplistic for me and that i'm like what's the point or they're just bad but this game's kind of like right in the middle it's uh mediocre it's mediocre yeah that's the best that's a good way of putting it this game has so much potential and even uh looking at the kickstarter whenever i
backed it like seven years ago and uh no i think it's i'd have to look up two or three yeah i want to say about two years yeah uh which is fine i mean i'm not knocking them for for that uh i'm just happy i got it at all it's uh yeah this game has so much potential with the amount of variety of the cards uh and the fact that the terrain all does different stuff and that the cards affect the terrain um it just sounds so hyped up but in actual practice it's very slow it has all the markings of a i would probably say a bad deck builder um with the slowness of a skirmish game um so what do you guys think of ignite yeah it was all right yeah that was about it it was all right i think my biggest uh complaint was we just needed one more player or the board needed to be smaller yeah yeah well in to that point talking about because mostly in skirmish games mostly throughout three players is not good yeah in skirmish true but and one of the positives of this game is the trophy system for victory points because you know if i could if even though it's ended up what happened in this game i could have just stayed back here let you guys whittle each other down then go in and finish you off in the last man standing type thing yeah this one where we're fighting for trophies you can't turtle yeah because you've got to get over and do stuff so i mean that's that's what makes it a viable three-player game i guess for skirmish yes which is
good but it's not just strictly you need to play with even numbers and right yeah stuff like that i i yeah i actually didn't mind it at three uh it because that was my that was my problem was yeah either someone just stays out of it lets two people fight but then by the time they get in it's like oh uh i actually lost because i was just getting into the battle and you'd won with and nate trophies yeah and they have cards that actually counteract that's like i want a turtle it's like okay i'm gonna meteor strike and then i'll just target where you're at it's like but here's why i think that the game is not worth it it's because it's a deck builder deck builders inherently already have a problem of of luck especially in the competitive sense in a cooperative sense it doesn't matter because it's like i got a shitty hand okay well we we have a shitty hand because we're working together um but the only way you can move is through cards the only way you can attack is through cards so and some cards need other cards for you to attack i mean case in point the bow and arrow which in theory sounds cool hey yes thematically i need an arrow to use my bow uh although i've never understood why arrows can't inherently be attacked because you can stab someone but that's beside the point um and it's like man that sounds so neat but then you forget that you have to luckily draw those cards and there were so many times where it's like man i wish i could move and to
attack you with my melee didn't get any movement so apparently we're just inept at moving well and i think to to i think their balancing aspect of that and i'm not saying it got totally balanced with this but there's several cards we came across that are trash yeah so you are really i mean the amount of the time we played i mean the deck is not that big no so i mean so you're getting through your deck pretty quick yeah because you're drawing up to six or seven in my case cards so and that makes it a little better chances are you're getting those i'm not saying it's i mean it's still luck it is still luck yet but it makes it because like if you're playing let's say ascension something like that i mean if we played a game that long my deck would be yeah yeah yeah you know so it's like a tower right so i mean it's like i can because we have a nice stack of cards we trashed throughout the game so i mean it kept our decks reasonable so that way yeah it made the odds better of getting your arrows to yeah and there's of course there's of course cards that let you draw more uh and there's uh yeah like you said multiple ways to trash the sh our beginner cards like every every standard deck builder has ways of you getting your starting deck out so you you start siphoning a little bit better um but in my case like for example with the elves they want of course ranged weapons you don't have to build that way but otherwise if i don't build that way i don't have an ability um and i mean same with the kitsune the cat
played she needed pure spell cards but those like she had meteor strikes and lightning bolts and things like that that oh hey okay well i don't want to use these so they're actually too honored yeah and it came in handy quite a lot right and which is really cool you had seven cards so once your deck got going it's just like oh now i'm to kick ass because i have these you have higher chances of using it but you're kind of stilted at the beginning um but with my build for example it's like okay i'm just going to buy the longbow and the arrows and if i don't get arrows and i got my longbow at least the longbow costs like the honor system a lot of the honor system the honor which is their currency allows you to buy an arrow so chances are you're gonna get errors but even then it's very annoying to be like okay well i drew only arrows or i drew my bows because i had multiple bows but i didn't draw any arrows so which means you know later you're only going to be drawing arrows so you're like great exactly and it's like even then it's like the only types of combinations that i saw with with this setup it's like oh man i can uh i can use my gladiator net and my meteor strike and then sure i'm going to kill someone that's pretty neat oh don't have any movement can't get in the range of my of the net okay like this hand for example it's like i have a meteor strike so i just have to hope no one moves and then the gladiator net no one's in range ice wall
that does nothing no one's gonna get to me triple sheath only allows me to draw three and get melee weapons which i don't have any movement to use the melee weapons so it's just it's like i feel either they wanted to do that they wanted to do a deck builder obviously but they're like well what about the skirmish game but they didn't enhance either well in kickstarter miniatures if you put miniatures in a game yeah and then you throw these the the uh special thing where you put get dagger hit points in the back yeah you know which was interesting yeah keeping track of it yeah but you know to make a kickstarter successful the old adage is put miniatures in it yeah that's that's absolutely true you know i mean because like even then the minis aren't fantastic and some of them don't even fit in their bases and it's not just the red ones i tried because i was like okay brad i guess i guess you won't be red i'll try white nope this is just too small of a base to fit in any of them yeah like you said this feels like a cake all of brad's minis nope just says that one just looks so weird that's such a weird thing and some of them i mean even the elves it's like like they don't they fit but they're uh they're a little loose well these actually kind of stick uh i felt like they didn't they didn't snap in it this feels like a a kickstarter this year that came out 10 years ago well not 10 but it feels like a 10 year old game to me it's and the only reason i don't say
that is because of because the deck building think about the deck building part of it yeah forget about that but there's nothing innovative with the deck building true from a deck builder 10 years ago this is dominion that's true which is why he which is what the designer said when he gave it a 10 out of 10 on board games right i mean what we're saying though is because he was like well they wanted a deck builder they wanted a skirmish but they didn't innovate they didn't know how to there's nothing innovative with the deck building system yeah you know what i'm saying now and then they put this part on and there's nothing really innovative about this except for the miniatures and the hitpoint daggers which means it is that's why it makes it feel like to me this like an old game yeah for sure you know mediocre i don't hate this game no no this isn't i hate it but i don't it's not one i'm gonna and that yeah that brought up the quest it's like because okay so let's think of things that they did try to innovate terrain okay so they have different types of terrain multiple different types of terrain granite only some of them come with the expansion uh so you have the lava which kills you instantly but you can't self-sacrifice so you can't just be like oh you're gonna kill me haha i'm gonna run into the lava so you don't get the trophy that's you can't do that it's like all right so what's the lava for obviously so you have to go around and movement is only orthogonal which i typically funny enough i said this prefer except in this game because it's so [ __ ] slow to get
near anyone that and even then even because you were talking about oh this doesn't work well as a three-player game or typically they don't right will they prevent any quick if if we had four players well then you still have the mountains um to block you and this goes up to six as well uh absolutely not no i'd be like yeah can i please go like there's no way i would max out this so even the number of players doesn't matter because even the board's even bigger like in a in a like it's it's it's like oh geez massive um it's double this yeah uh as a three or two the four player game um so they want you you have your starting areas and even then the very every single game because you start in the village is gonna be you everyone's just buying cards so you're doing nothing with the skirmish part right until you do that that's exactly any any old deck builder that's what you do you just go through several turns trying to get your deck yeah with some cards in it start more more purchased power cards or start buying the bigger ones start buying the bigger ones and it's just and then so you're trying to divide and conquer by being like well i want to play the game so i want to get i want to get out but there's no point in moving out so what they almost should have done is ignore the village part because it's like okay well yeah you're not going to do anything until and they try to make it where the village is oh if you get attacked in the
village it's double damage so they're trying to be like hey don't stay in here the whole time but so once you actually move out and get your deck going you're never going to run back because you can't buy cards anymore once you move out of the deal exactly that's why you keep one you kind of keep one back yeah just to buy and and then they they have the bazaar which was like okay well that's how that's the quick way of doing it like you sell your shitty cards for their cost to buy the more powerful ones so almost what they needed to do was nix the village part and have everyone fight for go into the bazaar because that gets you into the game quicker because everyone's going to the middle to fight one another um but even then you have nothing to fight each other with except shitty daggers so it's not even it just has extremely bad pacing or has the pacing of a deck builder which makes the skirmish part bad yeah to me like i said when we were doing our our games was like this could all just go away and if they just altered some of the wording on these and just had it come back and forth yeah then it still would have been filming it would it wouldn't have been original like they could have made this original the deck building part by doing what we were thinking could have been the case is when you buy a card that ability takes place yeah that could have been something innovative that that would have been something when you buy a meteor oh you bought it you pick a spot get to use it yeah you use it immediately you know yeah because that's what we were looking whenever we were
first playing and i was like i'm like why is this so slow why is this so boring and then because they say when you buy a car it goes in your play area i'm like oh so that must mean you get to use it nope it's just because cards affect discard piles and so it's just so you can't like double use a card and it's like okay when i was thinking about this the ice wall that we had been purchasing and how it pushes people mm-hmm because you could push people into lava with yes that's what i what if we did that and it's like yeah but you'd have to absolutely position yourself in a way that that would happen so it's very unlikely it's more of like a it's a attack of opportunity it's definitely not something that like builds and builds and builds yeah okay i can finally get there and it will probably work or and then or because even the designer because i was reading his his own ranking of his own game which is fair enough pretty unbiased i bet it's mediocre at best dude don't buy this game if you want to have fun i just wanted your money nope get yeah 10 out of 10. no and he's like i wanted a game that that you tell stories and that would be one oh remember that time i [ __ ] used a nice wallet yeah yeah that was so [ __ ] cool and it was like i know it was it wasn't because it was so slow i could see you running from across the map because i'd have to be like oh hi and then i swallow and i spell or net you get matted i've been laughing about net for quite a while yeah i mean
but i'm not sitting around the campfire reminiscing with you guys about this is not one of those games that i am going to be reminiscing about there's no cool combos there's not times where i'm thinking back and be like oh remember that cool the time i netted you then meteor striked you remember when i meteor striked you and you [ __ ] moved that was me and you probably ought to have the caveat i mean we haven't used every deck of cards no absolutely i never got these so just before the comments start getting out of hand no you have to play this game with this combination right no first of all if you are having to alter the entire game to make it fun you inherently made a bad game because it's like with this amount and there's a bunch of cards especially when you have the expansion there's a bunch of different ways that you can there's randomizers of course so you just you know shuffle and be like okay now we have this this setup how's it going to change you should be able to take any combination of cards and and the the crux whether with the meat or the bones of the game is still fun and these should enhance this it almost feels it needs to be reversed this should have been a skirmish game with deck builder components not a deck builder game with skirmish components because it makes everything super duper slow and luck based i can't move why not why can't i just inherently move like it's almost like you needed like you said okay burn two cards to be able to inherit or
just three cards just hey yeah everyone gets a move yeah uh just one i think the burning cards would be good because then it's a balance thing like because then you're losing buying ability by burning cards too and it's another way to mitigate yeah you know what i'm saying so if you have a crappy hand you can get rid of a few cards to at least do something just with one space which i just because in the skirmish game positioning and everything is so crux at least in most that but once everyone kind of builds their decks and then they run into the actual part of the game you're not moving around again like yeah you could be like oh i'm almost dead all right i'll gladly internet you and then run away but it's like that's only for one turn and then you still have the other person that's just gonna shoot you with arrows or meteor strike or lightning bolt you so once again it falls into the trap of skirvish games that bother me where it's like okay there's really no positioning there's no attacked in anything i'm doing um my entire point was to be like well i don't want to waste my deck on weapon dealer cards i'll run to the middle and just start selling that way and that's how i got any of the cards i wanted but i'm the elves so i'll just get bows and arrows and that's very boring because i'll shoot three arrows at you and do three damage like there's no
excitement here well right and i think that's i mean for because a lot of these types of games there's a most the time there's a learning curve this one was pretty simple to jump into i mean that's i guess that would be considered a positive you know i mean yeah because when you were looking through i mean it was pretty self-explanatory yeah i was like yeah when you do a damage you do damage yeah you know i mean that's it you can't block it it's just it's damaged one little dagger and i remember this being like their big selling point yeah oh man whenever you hit them you put a little dagger in there which i think is super cute it's it's fine like super cute it's yeah i mean it's cool they're red they're very obvious no i mean absolutely not and it's like they they fit like that you wedge them in there and they don't they don't fall out so it's that's what they focused on that was one of their uh delays was the daggers didn't fit the way they wanted to um like it's aesthetically pleasing which is pretty important it reminds me of those the item meeples from the oh from the tiny games yeah yeah you know that says little gimmick with the righties i also think where they truly miss the mark is every faction should have started with a different deck yeah um i mean of course again that goes back to my thing a 10 year old deck builder that's true every deck builder for that deal everybody started exact same cards yep you know yeah and that's that is and yeah that's a good point because it brings it right back into that old school right builders because nothing about us like feels special like we're all just like like we're different
races yeah but we have no like racial abilities other than the only thing is this which i think is very silly because that's like the key fantasy thing is like if you're gonna be a different race like oh i'm an elf so i have like superior cards like it would make sense because yeah you're more prone to like you should start as the kit soon with your ability of pure spell cards i should have more you should have pure spell cards i should already have bows and arrows i shouldn't have to go out and be like i'm the elves that use they use range oh [ __ ] we forgot to bring them i'm carrying a sword yeah and i'm carrying a sword and shield yeah i don't wait a minute i what do i do i shoot yes tries to javelin i was actually thinking of that looking at it and i'm like yeah why do you have it and everybody everybody only having three hit points because you know i just flipped over my other one to look and it's the dwarves right yeah and the dwarves ability it says all successful melee attacks do plus one damage if you're outside the village yeah so it's like two damage like one hit with this guy takes takes two thirds of your yeah when it's done yeah i mean the orcs are units die after taking four damage any weapon or war machine that does damage three only does two damage or health yeah yeah and they're from the the expansion right yeah so the lizard people can just move through the harmful terrain i don't know it's weird to me that there's a village all the way around this open field yeah it's a weird-ass border it's broken up by the mountains just so you can't run you can run across the village and start that's what i was planning on doing um yeah it's just like it it makes also no
thematic sense first of all i'm just go i'm gonna ignore the fact that you can shoot over four spots or throw a net over the phone is that a cloud you're like enjoying the one clearing you're just like oh man i can't wait to go and just imagine the accuracy of the person throwing the net over the deal i know you're just like
because it's not like a damaging net it's just more of annoying you're just like great i have to weirdly get out of this uh but yeah it's like okay well elves are all about range i guess i have to save up to get a goddamn longbow it's so expensive yeah their cards are explained of course with this they made a mix it's all mechanical there's nothing thematic it's all mechanical you have to go to the bazaar to sell your shitty cards uh so the game doesn't even really start until you're an hour in and then it's like by that point yeah you might have taken some damage and even then whenever you die like they they should have just left the player elimination because they don't want to do that either because it's like okay well sorry sorry cat you got kicked out guess you're now controlling water minions your deck's gone you don't get to play any more cards now they can move one to two and deal one damage and you can you can see more trophies you could still win being the these water minions and it's like wait how are they moving through the the planes yeah they just didn't want to stick to their guns on that part uh and it's like yeah i guess you can swarm because you summon them and so you can have 10 water minions and it's like that's just that's just obscene listen if there's one thing that i've learned that everybody loves it's so sworn well it's just but yeah no yeah yeah everything i would have been definitely
fine with player elimination i feel like yeah i was gonna house roll it and be like yeah i'm not dealing with uh why am i pulling out stupid minions that's so dumb yeah i mean it's uh it's it's not it's not great it's a game well i'll do it oh sorry well i was gonna say because i just i don't deck building is not my my go-to uh mechanism anyway yeah um i like deck builders but they have to be innovative like i have to be like oh that's different like imperium for example that came out in 2021 it's like every single i was gonna say race every single civilization right it has oh unique deck unique unique unique cards uh like they're everyone's completely different uh aeon's end has that oh it's cooperative but it also has the um like the the build of your deck to flip um i was trying to think of another deck builder but like pure ones like dominion and things like that i are boring yeah to me and this is just boring it's a lot of fluff but it's a kickstarter bloat this reeks
as much as i love deck builders you know like like i'm done with dominion yeah because that was an older sure thunderstone you know yeah you know it is what it is but but uh yeah i mean because deck builder is my goat like that is my thing and that's why i think they could they could have made a game just out of deck building but then it still would have been aged yeah there's enough deck building people out there that would have done it you know yeah but this doesn't so that like this doesn't status isn't going to satisfy deck builders enough this isn't going to satisfy because you can't do service people enough yeah so there's nothing that really will entice yeah whoever they're whoever their um target audience was it's like yeah they miss the mark on on both people which is like which is bad because we were well because it's sounding bad because it's like we're only dogging on it but there's nothing great about anything right in the game and it's not that it it functions fine yeah like in terms of that deck builder it's just not fun and it actually does bug me like whenever you have your own designer ranking your own game yeah it's like dude you need to just not do that because that's just sad that's like you going onto youtube and right here and you're being like like when people are like hey who are your favorite board gamer viewers well i don't do my own horn but i usually watch board games online because i think that guy's pretty [ __ ] great
it's like dude that's just sad who are you trying to convince that your game is good other people are yourself yeah um but yeah it's and and like i said i don't hate i don't hate anything about this game yeah yeah i mean it's just it's just kind of right there it's it's it's a game i wouldn't go out and i wouldn't play this again though that's the thing see i probably would okay just because and i was gonna that was a point i was gonna make a little bit ago as um it takes a long time to get your deck set to feel comfortable to start attacking right yeah once that happens though i mean all those deaths happen real quick yeah so you don't even get the fun of the comp no no i i understand but i'm just saying like the deck building thing takes a long time but then the game doesn't last that much longer like once everybody decides okay it's time to start fighting then it doesn't take that doesn't take very long yeah you know so i mean i'm not gonna say i'm gonna run out and play it again but if somebody was like hey you know i have this game you want to play it this was almost uh this was 190 bucks for that it's not definitely not worth 190 yeah that was for the all-in i think the miniatures aren't great the miniatures aren't great uh yeah it's the all-in pledge for 190.
uh they have the all-in pledges that you have to leave a 10 out of 10. i dodged this bullet because i was going to pack it you did you put 490 for all and i mean we're seeing games like that like uh dungeon dungeon whatever the new there's another that's the second edition oh the all right vengeance of infinity whatever that yeah yeah that's like 140 for the all-in but it's like huh that seems too good to be true but they also market this game on kickstarter as a tabletop managers board game and they're like battle a deck building battle asymmetric it's like no you ace asymmetry is yes i guess so we do have different abilities um but no i you do not play any different which is my version of asymmetry it's like they understand because the abilities were just for buying like or what you would buy yeah that's not really yes essentially yeah it's like essentially you would um mine wasn't mine was ranged attacks have or have plus one um with it's like yes essentially you would build asymmetrical like humans should have been going for melee weapons i guess and then i'd go for range but you don't have to but there's no reason why you wouldn't there's no reason why you wouldn't go for pure spells um it's just it takes so long to get there
yeah and it it just drops the ball on both yes it's a fine deck builder you have you you do deck building things but then this coverage part is not great and if you try to do the skirmish part your deck's going to suck so you can't do anything and at the end of the day it still comes down to luck on your hand draw it's like man i'm glad i built for long range weapons but i didn't get my arrows so uh i'll buy more arrows yeah it's a risk i mean this is one of those risk games you know you back on kickstarter and they don't have much out yeah you know so i mean that's that's kind of the risk you throw in like you brought dungeons of infinity i mean they're from a company that is putting out good stuff yeah so i think i'm gonna put more trust in the stuff like that you know yeah but there's one you know it was what it is it could have been a 10 out of 10. you don't never know no it is it is based off whatever [ __ ] name is darren goddammit darren uh i got nothing else to say about this one i'm good all right on a scale of one to ten um uh cat yeah i'll give it four four yeah i would say it would sorry just real quick it would be just average because it is like very average but like there's just like a little a few like key components like abilities and uh like lack of special cards for your own race and miniature like quality control issues um so i'll put it below just just right below i'm gonna throw it right at the good old five right in the middle just i've been saying it the whole the whole review
it's mediocre average game right in the middle yeah um i'm gonna i'm actually gonna agree with cat i was thinking five like as we were talking about there's nothing here that um like i inherently hate like i'm not viscerally mad about any any one thing but i almost think that it's it's a painful deck builder that's super slow um even if you do get your deck going the skirmish part is very painful painfully average so it's like painfully average which drops it below average uh for me so i'm gonna give it a four as well uh and also i really hate that the designer ranked his own [ __ ] game i just think that's so that's so sad like that's just that's because it's like you know people go off those rankings on board game geek and he's just buffing the [ __ ] he probably told all his friends to go on kickstarter or on board give it a 10 please it's an 8.6 what's that i think it's 8.2 yeah yeah it's just like like you know you can't trust that and it's i don't know it's just it's not very yeah it doesn't have a lot of integrity all he had to do was go on because he explained what he wanted to do that's perfectly fine well your goal was with this game uh do that on the forum hey designer note here's why i made ignite that's perfectly fine but the fact that it's in the rating portion and it's like no you are and he gave it a 10. and you are absolutely it's like no like it's just don't don't rank your own game
it's also the same people who went on kickstarter or whenever they explain on the back of the box an innovative fast-paced you know whatever and it's like don't tell me like or like the best whatever they tried buzzwords yeah try that yeah to hype up their own game and it's like look you don't get to tell people what your game is like because it's already biased and that's for them to decide it's like the only reason that ever works is when your viewers are praising your game and you're on kickstarter and you're looking at all the different things oh rado dice tower man versus all these people said this about it okay it's better to have a citation but like it's it's if i wrote a book and i was like thrilling fast pace excellent book number one in america yeah like wait what wait like you're saying that why are you saying that you're getting it's not even out yet you're saying it's number one exactly and so i i very much do not like that's the first time i've seen that like i don't remember ever seeing it either but i don't know and to me that's just it's just very cringy and it may it may happen on a lot more like small publishers like first yeah i've never really looked but yeah so the four four four five uh that's our thoughts on ignite let us know what you think of the game in the comments below other than that like comment share and subscribe and have a wonderful whatever time of day it is for you hey everyone thank you for watching and i really hope that you enjoyed the video if you would like to see more of my content go ahead and click that subscribe button and the bell to be
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