Psychic About New Kill Team AGAIN? - The Every Other Sunday Show

2:14 how's that uh stupid x split all right there we go can we hear you now anyone how we doing there we go cool yeah it's just every once in a while it just um xsplit the software i use just decides i think i'll just go attach to a different microphone and that's fun so anyway i i uh yeah there we go xsplit just do another update before the show it didn't that's what's so strange you know you'd think but no as it turns out no uh let me see here um everyone loves computers it's totally true totally true all right uh morning from texas loud and clear you sound okay much better that's good to hear i appreciate it um happy birthday man to another 50 years absolutely thank you excited to hear your thoughts mate perhaps well i've got oh i've got thoughts i'm lip-reading and he said something about sausages in the fridge that that yeah i'm pretty sure that's true i'm pretty sure that's it um good morning from columbus ohio listening along while i work on my backlog of unbuilt marvel crisis boogaloo models nice hello from singapore how you doing glasgow uh santa cruz switzerland um moncton

3:46 new brunswick that's not a word i think i've said before i mean i've said new brunswick before but not moncton i don't think i may be mispronouncing that um let me see here poland we got northern wisconsin state fair oh there we go ontario uh alabama akron ohio northern california germany let's see here thinking about getting back into 40kv the new kill team box set as chart is as a change from flames of war and team yankee nice hello from north carolina first time ever catching the show live your videos have helped me jump back into the hobby after 10 years with corn berserker kit bashes nice good to hear i'm glad to hear it france says hello well say hello back to the france uh for uh i appreciate it poland las vegas gottenburg sweden philadelphia dublin uh pasadena let's see here virginia any update on the relaunch for game four currently working on front end stuff which is to say the stuff that you guys see when you look at the app uh that's what i'm doing i'm working on kind of a it's not gonna be a re well it's gonna be a redesign because we're putting it on a new platform but it's we're not gonna change things drastically you know we're gonna freshen and tweak and things like that but that's already that that started now so that's that's good good morning from southern england um let me see here greetings from gothenburg just finished my first napoleonics and some wood elves

5:18 nice um tennessee corpus christi texas maryland uh hudson illinois new kilty might be the first gw i've bought since the original rogue trader my goodness wow on the topic of the new kill team does anyone feel it might be war cry in space now i mean in very simple terms sort of uh and we'll talk a little bit about that i think but yeah did you catch glass half dead's video going over the kill to kill team two mechanics sounds like it takes the best of a bunch for different games i did not no i'm sorry uh let's see here we are already splitting the box contents i don't even know how much it will be and i don't think anyone does according to the website uh you know the the article that they posted it's gonna come out in august which is like what 31 days so we don't know exactly when august um but that's i mean it my concern was they're gonna be like oh yeah it's gonna be coming out later this year but august that's that's at least a target you can you know that's that's something so we'll see how that goes uh new kill team got me so excited might actually build and play the old kill team starter i have well you know that's something like you could do that and i played my first war cry last week it was fun yeah i got to finally play again um with uh sam actually we played on monday of last week the day after fourth of july and in the united states

6:48 usually if a national holiday falls on a sunday then you get monday off if it falls on a saturday then you get friday off generally you know um so yes so i had monday off and so uh sam and i got together um we were gonna get together at the local games shop but it was closed which we didn't realize um and then um but it makes sense and then we instead got together at the studio and played there i have a small table there that was a little tiny it's a little small for the even the 22 by 30 uh board like it's wide enough or it's long enough but it's not deep enough but it was fine it fit just fine uh let me see here the box will be 50 more than you hope it will cost well that's possible yeah why is our new necromanda terrain doing that in doing that new kill team box i don't well i mean it's all orc stuff so i don't think it's it looks a little necra monday i'll give you that maybe no desire to play kill team but those commando guys look like a nice fit for zona alpha they're maybe a little too i would say personally that for zona alpha they're like they're little they're they're too either stylized and not realistic looking you know what i mean um because they're kind of like weird sci-fi world war one dudes kind of you know what i mean that's the death core krieg have always been that way it is interesting to see and this is weird to me

8:18 death corps of krieg the actual resin ones from forge world always used to be much more proportionately true to scale meaning that their wrists and their ankles and stuff like that looked more like an actual human so i was thinking to myself after seeing some of the new games that have come out recently that have had kind of smaller spindly models dominion's got the kind of thinner orcs uh cursed cities got like these very thin skeletons and stuff like that i was like well they're maybe gonna just keep them you know once they said oh it's gonna be death core of krieg you know in the video thing before they showed the video the actual pictures i expected them to be like the old ones just in plastic and they're kind of dummy thick like um you know guardsmen or space marines or whatever where their wrists are like this big around and their ankles are about the same and uh i was kind of surprised by that because being it just i don't know i kind of thought that they would stay kind of that more skinny kind of almost weedy if you will kind of thing but i don't know let's see here's kill team easy to jump into if you play 40k i have necrons and marines do i need to buy pariah to play you don't need to buy pariah at all ever it's the that's the one the thing that's a little weird is that they came out with pariah nexus and it was a big kind of to do and now it's obsolete basically i mean the models are still the models you can still use the models it's great you could probably still use the board to do i don't know things i'm not sure but like the fact

9:50 that you had to have that book if you wanted to play with space marines or necrons and kill team well that's all going away um i saw somebody in the previous before the show started chatting about geez do you think that all the other expansions and stuff are going to be obsolete yes yes i mean the um the missions and scenarios that are in them are kind of always useful it's always nice to have the scenarios if you're just like well you know we've run through these scenarios that are in this book so many times let's go look at something that's why like the the general's handbook the kill team annual even though there's only one the um chapter approved like all those like yearly books when the next one comes out yeah sure it replaces the previous one but those scenarios are still something you can play so you it's like you've got an extra book of scenarios and stuff like that it's just like the point costs and all that other junk that are put in there those are all now basically obsolete because now the new one is the the current information um but elites like basically from what it looks like the rules are completely incompatible this is not a like 8th to 9th 40k kind of update where there's still weapon skill ballistic skill strength toughness blah blah blah all that kind of like they've completely changed the way if you've seen some of the screenshots that when um i think adam troke was flipping through the book they showed some of the data sheets uh or whatever they're called now data cards i don't know they look completely different uh like there's the stats are very very very different um so uh i'm pretty sure that everything

11:24 that we've purchased for kill team is now other than like i said the scenarios that you could probably reuse they're basically kind of moot um which is a bummer but i kind of thought that they might kind of rip off the band-aid here and completely change the way things worked they've done it even just from what we saw yesterday if you watched the thing on twitch and all that stuff it's more than i thought the fact that they have like little rulers that come with the game that aren't just like inches but are like symbols and all that kind of stuff that's a little surprising to me because even even warcry still uses a tape measure or whatever you know what i mean it's not like oh you move three sticks or what yeah so i don't know that's interesting i don't know we'll see how that works out maybe since that these uh krieg are veterans they get extra rations and that's why they're thick i could see sure that might that's probably the case uh didn't they say the board would be the same size yeah oh yeah no it'll still be 22 by 30 or whatever yeah so the board i guess that's true too yeah your your boards and stuff and your terrain from previously sure that'll all work and your models obviously too you know um but yes that's the case um let's see here i've since left age of sigmar and 40k in favor of dragon rampant and xenos rampant hardcover official book in 2022 i haven't heard of zenith right but that's interesting but i still play warcry i wonder if the new kill team will be up my ally i mean it might it seems like they're going more in that direction

12:54 to some degree so yeah yeah um let's see here they said something about the war zones being still good yes that's true the war zones sure you know the war zones will still be good your terrain will still work that kind of stuff but all the books uh elites commanders i mean arena i mean the boards will still for arena and stuff like that i guess will still work and i guess the scenario is probably still well but you'd have to play with the new rule set which is a different thing and there might be i honestly never looked crazy close into like how many things in arena were directly linked to the rules so i don't know if there's anything there that might become troublesome or anything like that but i mean you know the board will still work and those little doors and all that kind of stuff you know yeah i hope the new movement mechanic in kill team is simple and they remove the ambush yeah i can see that i'm interested in new kill team models despite my disappointment of a massively different rule set um you know i'm interested in i'm interested in the orcs i'm interested a little bit in the in the creek i don't know we'll see but i am interested in the orcs because i was planning on building an orc um you know a kill team anyway uh so and i've got like for just regular boys i've got the heads that i want to use because they have fez's um they're from i think kromleck krom like or spell crow but i think it's kremlik um so like having some commandos and some boys in there like i don't know

14:24 that i would want to in a normal well again and we don't know what the rules look like yet going off of the old rules i wouldn't want to run an entire group of just commandos i would want to have like you know some commandos and some boys and maybe even a luda or something like that in there or whatever but now with the new things it'll be hard to tell also know for sure that kill team is going to be an action economy similar to war cry much of the way war cry works will be ported over to 2.0 i mean you know warcry is i think a fun game and i do enjoy the way that it works as far as the um like the activation thing is kind of cool um the activation thing in warcry it's not just like you roll every turn to see oh who gets to go first each turn you do but it's not just the role that determines that you're also you're you're throwing six d6 six six hiders and then the person who has the most single dice you know like just a four just a five just whatever um they get to basically go first but if you get doubles out of that six or triples or even a quad then in that turn you'll be able to use that as a special kind of spell or special ability um so it's kind of like yeah maybe i get to go first but that's because you rolled a quad which now i have to watch out for this entire turn because at some point you're gonna you know blow stuff up with your special you know quad rule and all that kind of stuff so it's it's interesting that way and it's it's a i think it's a cool mechanic and so if they do something like that and kill team that might be kind of cool you know i

15:55 gotta be honest i had no problem with the old kill team rules i know some people complained about the the wounds mechanic and that kind of stuff i really liked the old kill team rules so i'm not going to say oh well the new ones are dumb because i haven't seen them i don't know i you know uh as humans we like to ver many of us including myself in many situations like to um dislike change you know we definitely are like well this is bad because it's new and and different than what i expected um so i'm trying not to do that obviously and i again like i said i like if i like war cry if they're basically kind of making it a war cry version of um of kill team that might be kind of cool but i liked the old rules and i got to be honest i think that the old rule system for kill team because it was so much closer to the way that 40k actually plays i feel like it was a better indoctrination to go from kill team to 40k i think that going from war cry to age of sigmar rules-wise is not an easy switch sure now you've got a bunch of age of sigmar models that you can get into agent sigmar with but you you you're relearning the rule set almost completely from scratch whereas kill team was basically like small scale um non-squad uh 40k with some here you know some tweaks here and there again like the wounds thing and stuff like that and some other stuff um obviously the activation was better than 40k 40k activation is still

17:26 in my opinion not good that's as far as i'll go with that um but yeah i don't know it's it's going to be interesting to see uh how it works out getting more scrolls slash warcry data is always a bit tricky i tend to play at home and introduce my friends the games which you would put the work right cards data online somewhere well but they sell those books so they're not going to do that um yeah again that's like another big benefit in my opinion to age of sigmar is that the war scrolls are online so you can look them over and all that kind of stuff and everything like that um so yeah warcraft gets to sell you up to four different books so if you want like if you've got uh warbands from all four of the you know grand alliances then that's um let's see 57 that's 120 bucks you're gonna spend for those uh american for those four books now hopefully uh and and they've said that the army lists and stuff like that are gonna come in a separate book you're gonna have the core book and then you're gonna have the army list compendium and they said it's going to come in a separate compendium they didn't say how many compendiums now you could say well they said compendium and compendium is singular yes but that doesn't mean that i don't know i'm still a little i'm i don't know i could see them trying to release multiple books for the thing they maybe they won't and i hope they won't i think that frankly they should have put it all together into one book the

18:57 fact that it's in two separate books the rules and the now the upside i guess is that if they need to they can just release a new version of the compendium every year or whatever and then you have all the new stats and then like new armies that pop up and knew this and knew that and all that kind of stuff that goes in there that's again another way for them to sell books um whereas if they you know the fact that it was already baked into the core book for the original kill team meant that they had to have these add-ons and stuff you're still carrying around two or more books but you know we'll see we'll see how it goes learning rules is not the barrier to entry to the larger games it's the investment required to buy the models um i think there's a benefit though to being able to learn the rules in the beginning beginner games i think there's something to that you know so making it complete a completely different set of rules um you know i i i've been thinking about this for a while i think a lot of people in the industry not the not the people who work in the industry i think a lot of people who are us than the community kind of ignore rules like the important thing and you saw this yesterday frankly in the twitch stream they just basically talked about the models for three quarters of that stream you know showing the sprues and this and that the other thing which is fine but they didn't really talk much about the rules at all and and they will they'll start talking about it soon and there'll be articles and there's probably an article going up right now as i'm chatting about this on um the uh warhammer community

20:28 uh site that's how the way it sometimes works um but i think rules are important and and you know so i i i won't play a game with bad rules just because i love the models or in the story but that's not the that's not normal in the industry at least from what i've seen over the last however many years i've been doing this uh the timing of this is poor and may backfire 12 months after a wave of lockdown shut-ins began the hobby laid down cash and gw changes it all on them newbies without old rules are fine mindset um i mean again this is probably something that they had planned for the last two to three years they probably started working well at least a year after kill team came out back in 2018 they probably started working on new kill team that's just the way that the um that the you know it's the lead up time that it takes to produce these products um so yeah happy birthday uncle adam thank you last weekend but yes thank you very much i appreciate it uh i just signed up on twitch to find this can't find it live on twitch um if you go to you to to find this because this i haven't this is not on twitch this is on um but if you're talking about the to watch their video uh hang on a second here and let me push this button here and then try to find the right window for me there we go um if you go to the

21:58 warmer community website and go to the preview online octarius mission briefing there's a embedded version of it right there so you can watch the twitch right there if you want to watch the whole thing it's an hour and hour and 13 minutes and for some reason it's been running for a while that's not cool i didn't mean to do that but yeah so um that's definitely something you can watch there and i don't think you have to sign up for twitch to watch it uh at least not through their embedded uh thingy there on the page back to this button all right and then i have to click on this and i've lost the chat there you are now i've lost my window all right there we go um i think they'll carry over units from elites i have a suspicion that what they might do is that they may bake elites uh commanders and that kind of stuff into the new rule set from the get-go right so there's a very good chance i think that they will take the stuff from like you know elites basically added some new slightly higher level uh characters or or models and stuff like that into the you know original list the original lists in many of the different armies for kill team were i mean many of them were just like one to two models sometimes you know like um you had some of them like imperial guard hello a bunch of different models to choose from but like the uh thousand suns you basically had rubric marines and the bird dudes and that was it so um you know that's what that's what happened

23:30 someone is either chainsawing or weed whacking outside that's awesome so anyway my point is is that uh very possibly and i they'd be i think kind of dumb to do to not do this hopefully when they come out with this new compendium it will have commander type units elite type units and the normal base type units all in it if they come out with just the base units again and then in another three months they come out with an elites book again i think that would be a bad move but we will see how they work out a happy kill team doesn't need to be a beginner game and can be an independent game made from the ground up to be a skirmish game i mean it's not a beginner game true but it does help it's a beginner game not in the rules set but in the fact that you don't need an entire 1500 to 2000 point army but the rules themselves weren't beginner i don't know that any of these games are beginner um even you know warcry is still you know there's a lot to it it's just not it's not maybe none of them are difficult let's just sit down and say that none of them are difficult to get the hang of to become a master player or whatever a tournament winner that's very difficult but to be able to sit down and play agent sigmar 40k kill team warcry necromunda any of the stuff adeptus fly around a kiss or whatever any of those games you can do that and it's not difficult to do it's just that the big benefit to to kill team and to warcry is that it gets you buying models that eventually you might go well heck if i just buy this this and this i've gotta work a depth or a agent sigmar army you know

25:01 or i might just just this this and this tank and now i've got a you know enough for a combat patrol in um 40k so like it's trying to get you in the door but as far as the rule sets i don't i don't think any of them are really simple per se so people's willingness to put up with shoddy rules and poor customer treatment for the sake of minis they like baffle me at times i almost feel like gw is like a toxic relationship i don't think it's that bad i think that they're a big enough company that they that here's the deal like so vince and i we made a game it's called rain and hell we sold it for pretty cheap um but that's because it's not our day job we don't have thousands of um employees that we have to try to make sure get paid and and you know we don't have giant bills to pay for buildings that we build and you know this and that and the other thing so being a huge corporation like they are and they're not huge in the realm of like apple amazon you know whatever but within the game industry within the within not even in within the tabletop game or not even within the miniature game industry within the tabletop game industry they're one of the biggest companies out there and um they so they have to do stuff to to make it so that they make money and i get that i do um honestly customer service i've never had trouble with with them so i don't know about that uh i mean you know your mileage may vary but i've always if i've had a problem if i call somebody they send me a new thing i mean i

26:32 haven't had to do it a long time to be honest um but back in the days of fine cast i bought a box of um uh plague marines which you would think well they're fine cast plague marines no one will notice if there's like pits and bubbles and stuff like that which is true but um i was missing like several backpacks so i was like hey and then you know they just sent me new actually they just sent me new backpacks they didn't send me a new box which is fine i didn't need one i just needed some backpacks and so that kind of stuff i've always definitely um thought at least their customer service is pretty good in that situation so yeah uh let's see here um painting question will using matte varnish damage your airbrush i don't think so i've never had any trouble with it um yeah that's first i've ever heard of that um let's see here what else have we got i bought kill team for the terrain in the box don't care about the marines or tau also included was a cool game 2.0 will be cool too um yeah i mean the original original that had uh ad mech and jean steeler cults that original box that had some of the best terrain it was just so great and it went really really well together and it was a really super great price but it was one of those things it's kind of like that splash where you're like we got to get people involved so we're going to kind of drop the price in this situation to kind of get the people in there and then of course you know then they only made so many of them and then

28:02 but it got the door open got people getting excited and stuff like that and that's kind of something you do especially when you're kind of relaunching a product like that now i have a suspicion and i don't know for sure i would be hmm i could see this cost i don't know i'm going to guess i would guess this is going to maybe cost 200 bucks maybe it's less but i bet not i'm betting it's the box is going to be like 199 i think i don't know i have no no i haven't heard a word from anybody but if i'm going to guess just looking at the stuff that they've put out recently and the you know dominion curse city all that kind of stuff whatever with the amount of terrain and the units on each side it i mean you're going to be looking at what almost i think it's 10 units on each side so that's 20 units plus also the terrain and the board and stuff like that but they still want to get people in the door now from what i understand you buy that box set you still need to buy the compendium if you want to have anything else other than because the data cards for the krieg and the the orcs are in this box so if you want to play with just those dudes great but if you want to play with any other figures then you're also going to have to buy that book separately the compendium so i don't know if i had to guess and again i'm you know i'm not psychic or am i uh i don't know i would guess 200 bucks but we'll see i don't know uh do you use pigments when you paint have you have you tried spaying pretty bit have you tried spraying pigment fixer through an airbrush i own some pigments i've

29:34 barely ever used them for me i've always believed and i don't know if this is completely true but it seems to me as if pigments are more for folks that are into like display painting pigments even if you put fixer on them can still kind of get rubbed off a little bit here and there you know what i mean like through play handling moving around going from shop to your friend's house to back to your house that kind of stuff so that's one of the reasons why i've never really used pigments much if you can find a spot on a model where you're like it's unlikely anything will touch this portion like maybe more of the i don't see the inside of the model but like the stuff that's not like if you're putting it like a foam tray it won't rub on the foam then i could see using some pigment there like maybe on the base or something like that um but i've not really ever used too much pigment i've messed with a little bit but yeah that's about it 200 is way too much for 10 minutes in terrain well it's technically 20 minutes in terrain and a rule book um so yeah but we'll see i mean i hope that i'm high i don't mean you know i like with drugs i mean i hope that my that i'm high then that it's actually maybe it's 160 but i have a suspicion it'll be 200 bucks um hope you're having a good day i have you picked up dominion greetings in the uk um i've got dominion yeah well the games workshop sent me a copy of dominion i talked about it last month or whatever and um itchy head back here anyway um so yeah and i've actually painted up three of the cruel boys and i think i

31:04 put them in the thumbnail of that video if i remember correctly and uh what else did i do i'm currently taking some of the hobgratz and converting them to use them for uh space weirdos which is this little game here it's a pdf but i've printed mine and put it in a little booklet um which is not hard to do actually you can do it directly there and the acrobat thing you just click the booklet button and then you need a printer that can double-side to some degree but otherwise yeah so anyway it's a fun little um skirmish game that i enjoy and so i'm turning those hobgratz into sci-fi hobgratz i'm giving them boulder pistols and stuff like that and everything so it's kind of fun uh on the new faction page they separate orc boys and orc commandos along with imperial guardsmen and veteran guardsmen into two different factions is that a good idea i don't know that's a good question i haven't looked at that i guess um for me kill team should have been underworlds for 40k small three to six mini squads battling you know i've always wondered why they haven't had an underworld's game for for 40k i guess they probably had to choose and they just decided to go with the fantasy version but yeah i'm a little surprised on that

32:21 um let's see those creed troopers don't just just don't do it for me i never knew gw you could be able to make deathcore look like crap i don't know if they look like crap i think they're good models but they're i mean to be fair they've been i think that they've been dialed back a little bit in comparison to what it was with it was when it was forge world and like i said they've also gotten thicker like you know a little more heroically scaled i suppose so yeah i thought they said that this in the reveal stream that the book contained all factions you you'd reasonably expect uh i don't even know what that means well the compendium i guess will so like i said the core book that comes in the box won't have any data sheets in it as he was as adam troke was flipping through it i was keeping an eye out because i was like are the army lists in the core book and it turns out they're not now i think i swear he said it was going to be 140 pages too which is sort of thick a little bit so i don't know that seems like more rules because like the original core rule book for 40k or for kill team had the rules in it but then also basically army lists for nearly all the armies didn't have sisters of battle didn't have demons didn't have a few other things here and there that i can't think of but otherwise it had pretty much most the rest of stuff in it admittedly they added later the elites and the commando or commanders and stuff like that as separate things but i don't know so the fact that the book is like all rules and no army lists is sort of surprising to me

33:52 so that leads me to believe maybe there's more rules or maybe they've put in a much deeper campaign slash narrative sort of thing which would be cool i would like that quite a bit if they did that so you know kind of this and that um but yeah so it'll be interesting to see but from what i understand the other book the which is what they've referred to as the compendium that will have the the stats for all the different types of models you can use but we don't know anything about whether again it's going to have elites in it it's going to have commandos in it anything or commanders i keep saying commandos because of the orcs but yeah um let's see those hop grouts would be a great base for making some ubergrot conversions for the new beast snagas there's a rumor that gw might may be doing faction specific kill teams a la underworld slash warcrawl it could be interesting if true i mean i know those sold really well for warcry you know like and so if people are wondering which well not maybe okay so this could go one of two ways you could either be talking about you know how like warcry had like the corvus cabal the untamed beasts the iron golems that were basically just war cry armies although you could then get stats for them to play with them in age of sigmar um then that was what they originally launched with war cry and it was only those those factions and you're like oh okay but then they were like okay well now we made a bunch of cards and stats for all the rest of the age of sigmar stuff which was a smart move in my opinion um or but

35:25 but at the same time once they did that they also released warcry branded boxes but it was like here's a bunch of night haunts you know that you could make a list out of here's a bunch of gloom spike gets here's a bunch of storm cast they might do that for kill team now they've done in the past those kill team boxes where you get like a small group of dudes and like a piece of terrain and some stuff um and so there's that they've already been doing that already but they may make smaller boxes that is just like here is some stuff that you could use to make a kill team out of but i don't know if i even need to i mean they might but they don't i don't know they need to the other thing about those war cry boxes like the night hunt and the gloom spike gets they were also relatively short production runs basically it's not something you could have gotten for a long time they basically kind of was a splash there's a splash release and then you know you if you find him in a local game store right now that's great like i know my local game store still has the night haunt one uh the the war cry nighthawk box i'm pretty sure like on the shelf i was just there yesterday what's yes yeah i was there yesterday so um that could be that too i don't know

36:33 let me see i know you said you weren't getting a resin printer but have you changed your mind uh well i do have a resin printer i don't have it set up yet but i bought a elegoo saturn yes i bought a saturn no mars it's either a mars or a saturn which everyone's the big one i think it's the saturn um yeah it's the saturn so uh yeah that's the same one that uh my good friend matt from uh game four from we do the game four podcast uh which you should totally uh check out every two weeks we do uh the the game four podcast find it where your podcasts are at and uh anyway um he's got that same printer actually he's got two of them now and um so the reason i got it was because a uh the the models that i painted in the rain and hell book and then we took photos of and then those photos got painted over by um artists empire blah blah blah let me show you real quick um those were all printed by matt using that printer and i mean like these guys here so these are resin models that matte printed i painted them photograph them against the white background and then artistsempire.com he took them and did the digital paint over to make him look like they were running around through hell and it's all scary and on fire and stuff which is very cool um so uh having that resource mat basically uh is

38:03 a big benefit and then also he was using um water washable resin elegu brand water washable resin which is slightly less problematic as far as you don't need to have isopropyl alcohol and all that kind of stuff also the smell is reduced as well so i've got everything i need i just need to basically there's a little room uh underneath the sun room uh in the basement and then i'm going to be using i think to set up my printer and i'm going to try to vent it properly or at least semi properly and all that kind of stuff but it's in progress so yeah i am i am going down that road um the fact that it's no longer super smelly stuff and the fact that you don't have to use isopropyl alcohol anymore uh if you want to use that stuff and those prints with the water washable lagoon stuff were spectacular and i was really happy with them so uh looking forward to that eventually yep um what happens to the servants of the abyss from the blackstone fortress gosh i hope that they put stats for them in the new stuff because they're they're pretty cool um let's see when we had bespoke kill teams like the star striders and the geller packs it was super disappointing to me that they didn't get more it's nice space to experiment in i guess i wasn't surprised that they weren't going to add to that that was again like a a single off here's this rule this this box rogue trader box and here's the stuff and there you go now the question will be and that's that's interesting

39:34 will the servants of the abyss which was the chaos dudes from blackstone fortress and will the geller pox and the star striders which are the two sides from rogue trader will they end up in the in the compendium i hope so because those people who like to run those armies those groups will be kind of bummed out um so i hope that they are they put that stuff in there i think it would be a good idea if you're going to make a compendium it should compend i don't think that's a word i think i made that up but it should be pretty all-inclusive in my opinion otherwise it's just a book of army lists that could or might not actually be complete uh but a compendium is like bringing a whole bunch of things together into one place that's the whole concept so i hope that that's what they do you know what i mean what kind of updates to the campaign system would you like to see i know you recently did a video on campaigns more games i personally wouldn't mind seeing a campaign map included yeah i think a map would be good i think more um choices and benefits to upgrade your individual folks um in between games i don't want to necessarily be like oh cool this guy got a rocket launcher now because you're not going to then go and glue a rocket launcher onto him and paint it and you know but i i think that stargrave did this really smartly what they did is that you have these different classes so let's say you're a recruit one of your henchmen is a recruit that

41:06 means that they basically carry a pistol you can't give a recruit any other kind of weapon other than a pistol but when a recruit gets upgraded in between missions and stuff like that and they get a new weapon well because they carry a pistol they get a better kind of pistol which means you don't have to go in there and rip that pistol off and give them like a carbine or a sniper rifle or anything like that you're you're not making me have to remodel anything on the actual model you know back in the day with like morka i was talking to a guy recently at the shop and he was talking about how like when he would play goricomorca in between missions and that's the only gw game was just basically orcs on orcs um you know this guy now has a cool robot arm so he would actually take and model up a new robot arm and either make a new model with the robot arm and then take the old model and just chuck it in a box and go well maybe eventually i'll need that again and so he's like got a box of like the low-level people before they got upgraded and that's i don't like that i don't i don't want to do that once i've built and painted and everything like that if i'm going to upgrade i don't want to have to remodel the actual model i just want to be like cool now this pistol has a better range or it does more damage or it does this or it does that or whatever and and then be able to kind of tweak and change those folks as it goes i like that concept a lot um so yeah we'll see i want data on gaunt's ghosts oh yeah i know god's ghost ought to be in there in my opinion that'd be great um uh let's see here

42:36 i think gw sells battle uh bsf um blackstone fortress cultists in the chaos space marine section yeah they might that can be kind of cool um all the miniatures from the kill team rogue trader are now my crews for my stargrave games oh that's a good idea yeah that's not a bad idea at all i can see that also with blackstone fortress to some degree as well that's very cool yeah i personally doubt that out of production teams like star striders gel or pox and servants the abyss will not get rules i doubt that outer productions will not get rules well i hope you're right however some of them may get re-released in boxes and their rules later i would like to see that too yeah i would love to see them i mean they've probably i would assume they still have the molds for a bunch of that stuff crank out more of those things you know what i mean

43:23 compile is the word you were looking for you compile a compendium you don't compend a compendium do you compile a compilium probably not all right well that's probably you're probably right um the way necromanda does it once you advance something to the point that they get more weapons you maintain separate cards for each loadout separate models etc yeah see i don't like the separate models thing i just i don't i don't like once i've built and made this dude just let's just make it so that you know sure is it fudging it a little bit by saying oh yeah i know that pistol that he's got it's way better than it used to be sure it is you know but i'm personally not a fan of having to like sit down and like build a new model and paint a new model just because this guy's got a cooler gun now or a jet pack or something like that you know what i mean um that's a personal preference i mean that was part of the design decision we did with um with uh brain and hell was that you know your upgrades and things like that are generally either you go from being a lesser demon to a greater demon to a superior demon but that doesn't mean you have to get larger or anything like that you're just you know you have more experience um and then you have the essences which are basically soul energy that you there's no need to model and then there's relics but even the relics could just be like anything they could be something that's you know it's a belt buckle i don't know you know whatever so um yeah that doesn't that that was uh that was kind of the way we wanted we wanted to do that because i'm a big fan of i want to upgrade my guys but i don't want to have to manually physically upgrade the models you know what i mean this is what i don't care for about

44:53 skirmish games that include character progression if the character gets new equipment i would need to modify or paint a whole new model see that's the thing that's why i don't want to that's why i think it's a smarter idea to try to not do that you know um if uh maybe now they've got armor you know if they've got armor now they get new armor maybe it's just better armor but it doesn't have to look any different it's got a new technology to it some sort of nanocarbon weave which is a thing i just made up i think um you know whatever and and you could do that and then not have to go in and redo and change and tweak the models themselves the actual physical model i guess that's where magnets come in handy i don't know how magnets work um i got stargrave pdf this week i want to use the uh wild west exodus not firefly crew oh that'd be kind of cool i could see that um thinking about picking up some pro actual transparent paints are they like regular washes have you used them i have used them they are not like regular washes um they're a little bit more along the line of glazes so like a wash is designed you kind of slap it on there it gets into the crevices darkens things up and stuff and it's in theory supposed to sort of pull not pull not like contrast where it pulls away from the peaks but it's not supposed to color the like flat areas too much it does but it's not supposed to do it as much as say a contrast paint might or that kind of thing um glazes are designed to not really they will pool a little bit in the crevices but really glazes are designed to be layered repeatedly over and over and over again to kind of build up like a gradient and stuff like that in areas and stuff so the transparent paints at least the way i've used them has been a little bit

46:25 more like their glazes so there's that um but i think that jason from monument hobbies has got some videos or maybe even blog posts or something that explain more about how to use them um but they're not washes yeah let's see here hey adam now you have experience of designing a game how has that changed the way you look at new game systems as they come out love the content all these years hope you had a good birthday well thank you um i mean how has it changed the way you look at new games systems they come out um i mean i kind of pay attention a little bit more towards well okay a couple of things here number one vince did the majority of the mechanics we worked together on and i would like throw out ideas and he would figure out how the actual math works and stuff like that and how the actual rubber would meet the road but vince is more of the the rules mechanics so when i look at rules mechanics i'm still not necessarily seeing the matrix and getting all that math floating around my head and all that stuff i'm just like well that sounds kind of fun but i'm still just as lousy i think at strategy as ever so i don't think that's been fixed in any way but i do look at a lot of games and look at choices for the way that layout happened um i i look at like ideas about like you can sometimes see like especially with games workshop in some situations you can look at and go i have a suspicion i know what they're going to do next and what they're going

47:55 to release next because then this will make more money and they're a big corporation and that's what they have to do and that kind of stuff with small companies like us it's a different story you know but yeah i don't know i don't think like i said i don't think it's changed things much plus i originally i've been designing games i first designed the first game that i designed with my friend peter uh was back in 1992 so this is technically not my first rodeo it's just my first rodeo in a while we haven't designed i haven't designed anything or produced anything or published anything for quite some time um but uh probably since the early 2000s was the last time that we produced anything uh but then there's this long kind of hiatus and then that's when i reached out to vince and so yeah and that's been a lot of fun and we're already we were talking on thursday night we're already starting to like we know what the next game is going to be for the most part at least in theme and in story and stuff like that a little bit so we're already starting to work on that but we'll probably start working in earnest on the next game i think like in august or september is the kind of the plan but we are currently working on for reign and hell the free expansion which will be the ability to play uh there'll be a six scenario uh add-on that allows you to play it um and you play that scenario uh solo in co-op well not at the same time solo or co-op and um and it'll be six scenarios and it's a story so you don't just play like randomly roll d6 and go we're playing the fourth one you play the first one and then the second one and the third one and there's a story

49:26 that kind of goes along with it um so yeah we'll be releasing that end of this month potentially early august um but yeah that's the plan so it's uh actually uh vince's playtesting at this weekend um so yeah the nice thing about doing solo games is you can play tests by yourself i mean he's going to have other people look at too but you know it's it's it's a little bit easier especially now that lockdown is being lifted and stuff like that but yeah

49:54 do you think that the amazon lord of the rings series will affect gw's middle earth strategy battle game line in terms of keeping it in production it might that's a good question i don't know let's see a clown once told me that magnets work because of miracles yeah i think the clowns are they know what they know about magnets how do you feel about some of the rumored rule changes uh changes to stats that make the game less 40k light and make it its own game well this hurt kill team as an entry point i kind of talked about that a little bit earlier um i'm of i've moved several minds on it i liked kill team regular regular plain old kill team uh you know the one that came out in 2018. um i liked it quite a bit i had no problem with the wounds thing um so i'm not one of the people that was like clamoring for like we got to change this because it's not so i'm looking forward to giving it a try and seeing what it looks like uh i also like warcry so i'm not like oh it's gotta be just like the bigger version of the game but slightly tweaked you know i don't believe that war cry needs to basically just be age of sigmar light um so we'll see how this all works out but i didn't dislike the old version so you know i know some people for whatever reason hated it i don't understand why but you know people have different opinions about things and that's fine so yeah i don't know uh we'll see how it goes i'm looking forward to checking it out though any thoughts on an expansion or supplement for rain in hell and having

51:24 an angel cider force no the no i guess that's that's that's the straight up portion of it the reason i think is because it's not raining hell is not the biblical judeo-christian hell it's a different dimension there are these creatures there we refer to it as hell uh we refer to it as or them as demons because when they would come through it's just yeah they come to to earth and stuff like that and that just sort of dovetailed into the religions that were already kind of going and all this stuff good so but they're not there's no lucifer there's no named characters as far as like you know from the bible or any kind of stuff like that so then to bring in angels would be a different story altogether i mean that would be yeah but no we weren't really planning on that like i said the expansion is going to be uh give you the ability to play solo so you can play uh the different six scenarios as you go along solo or you can play them co-op as well and you're gonna be basically fighting you're not gonna be fighting against other cabals you're gonna be fighting against different kind of creatures that are also denizens of uh of this dimension but they're not particularly they're not demons per se they're like uh you know just swarms of creatures and things like that and different stuff and whatever so yeah um but yeah it's it's it's gonna be cool i'm looking forward to it

52:49 pre-made sticks is such a stupid approach to tabletop game that already uses the simplicity of tape measures i i don't know i mean in certain situations so there's a game that i'm a fan of called um song of blades and heroes measurement in song of blades and heroes is done via sticks but the reason for that they do it is because the game can be played either 28 millimeter scale or 15 millimeter scale so instead of them having to say your range on this person is this long or this long if you're playing 15 millimeter they just tell you your range is long stick medium stick or short stick and then depending on which scale you're playing in you make your own sticks just get yourself a dowel or whatever a pencil i don't know cut it off and so then that way they don't have to constantly explain the difference between these two scales they make they just do everything in a length of stick and then depending on whether you're playing 50 millimeter or 28 millimeter then you just use the right six it's fine now obviously this game is not being done that way there's no scale differences but um i don't know i'm still withholding you know on why that like i'm a big fan of using tape measures i'll be perfectly honest i got no problem with it i think it's just just fine it's great um but i mean if you look at star wars legion if you look at um i'm pretty sure there's sticks in the the marvel game right like that's becoming a thing and uh i don't quite understand it completely but i'll give it a try and see what it looks like um so yeah i'm not gonna say

54:22 no we refer to them as demons they refer to themselves as dennis very possibly yes greater dennis that's yeah no i think that you guys are right i'm totally totally thinking you guys got it right i'll let i'll let vince know um do you think the new digital service that comes in august will make the need to buy all the rulebooks obsolete probably not unfortunately uh supposedly all the books as well as shows called warmer plus yes i've heard of warhammer plus um i have a suspicion that i don't and i don't know this for sure but i think that what you'll get access to i think with warhammer plus and i don't know this for sure i think you'll get access to the army lists and the stats and all that stuff in the different whether you do aj sigmar army builder or you do the 40k army builder app i think that you get those through 100 plus but i don't you don't get just like a pdf of each book that'd be awesome if you did but you won't i'm not for five bucks a month or whatever it is so um if you still want the information the fluff all the background stuff like that you probably still gotta buy the books but if you buy the books then you get a code which you can then put into the so i don't understand a lot of it to be perfectly honest why they're doing it that way because right now from my understand the codex is you get a code it's in the back and then you put that code in and then now it unlocks all of the stats just the stats nothing else uh in the army builder thing so there you go but so i don't i yeah i don't know i haven't paid super

55:54 crazy close attention to um warner plus because i'm not i don't think i'm in the um demographic for it because it sounds like basically you either need to play agent sigma or 40k or both for it to be really useful and i don't play really either so much i mean i will be playing some age of sigmar hopefully towards the end of the year i'm actually gonna start working on a thousand point uh night haunt force because sam and i are hoping to play in a small very casual tournament um and so uh but anyway yeah we'll see how that goes i don't mind a beer in pretzel's version of 40k i feel will bring help bringing new players absolutely all three of these games uh kill team warcry uh warhammer underworlds they are all purposefully built and designed to help bring new people into the hobby back in 2014 and previously before the launch of age sigmar you pretty much if you wanted to get into games workshop for the most part you either had to buy and build and paint a 1 500 at least point army of um 40k or something roughly the same size in warhammer fantasy and that's a big hill to climb for for a lot of folks but when it's uh hey you know back when shadespire first came out at 60 bucks you get two forces and the board and the dice and all the cards and everything you need and you can start playing and if you want to paint those little guys you can but you don't have to uh they're in different colored plastic so you can at least tell them apart really easily that was a great value proposition and

57:26 then when you drop on that person later on you know those guys that you got there's stats for them for age of sigmar so you could put them into the age of sigmar army that you might build if you decide to go down that road like you know that's a that's that's a vector to get people into the hobby and that's like nearly everything they do now excuse me nearly everything they do now is about getting people into the hobby and i think that's a good thing and it's way better than it used to be so

57:54 uh it's so they don't have to pay apple or anyone else royalties for selling in their shop and that could be two i could say that uh the vault environment plus is going to be old campaign books mainly so that you can get the old lore and such hmm i like gauges says trey i just don't want them to be a necessity at this point legion and whatnot can get away with it because they are new systems i feel like 40k is too established to make the gauges desirable well it's not that's the thing it's not 40k it's kill team and since if it was if they were like okay cool we're gonna make kill team that's just like it was before but now has gauges that would have been weird but because they're tweaking it quite a bit and adding the gauges yeah i don't know we'll see how it goes it'll be interesting excuse me how was your work war cry game with uh mr lens the other day uh it was good it was um for me it was a bit of the blowing the cobwebs off a little bit and so that was helpful but it was uh it was my um skaven uh warband of um all plague monks the 13 as they're known because there's 13 of them i painted those guys on twitch and he was running his unnamed beasts no untamed untamed beasts and uh and they're just like a standard kind of warcry group you know um and uh he was concerned because my guys have got like six inch move and whatnot and all that kind of stuff and everything uh and those their attacks are real swingy so like i swing i basically

59:27 throw three dice when i attack bass uh and my strength is not crazy high his toughness is so i'm still in many situations i'm hitting on fives generally which is you know okay so i'm hitting on fives i'm throwing three dice but if i crit which is to say roll a six i go from doing one damage to five damage per dice so like and that's on one little rat dude that like yeah the the their their their crits are are very swingy which is interesting um unfortunately we played the tournament we played the scenario where you have to kill the other person's uh leader and then i through some very dumb placement and again underestimating how far you can move on that small board in some situations i kind of got killed and turned three sort of quickly so but it was it was fun it was fun uh i'm looking forward to doing it again we talked a little bit about um uh potentially doing maybe some sort of at least battle report maybe like uh campaign battle reports we'll see how it goes but uh yeah um we're trying to plan on on on some stuff like that as well scrimmage style games are great you can have a variety of war bands they cost less compared to the whole army they play faster and i think you can be more fluent with the rules i agree on all those points honestly that's why i like skirmish games i like having a little bit of this and a little bit of that and i refer to it as buffet style um you know which eventually no none of us will know what buffet means anymore because i think buffets are going to go away uh but um yeah it's just the fact that i

1:01:00 don't have to like i've never painted skaven before so i'm like i want to do some skavin well i did 13 skaven and there you go boom as opposed to doing an entire aegis sigma army of skaven which is going to be far more than 13 models um so yeah i i like that kind of stuff specifically about um about skirmish games there was an amazing collectible card game called pirates uh pirates of the spanish maine is what it was called you got a pack and you would pop out the parts of the pirate ship to make these little pirate boats and they used sticks for movement and cannon fire they didn't use sticks for movement cannon fire they used the cards so you would pop out the if i remember correctly yeah you would pop out like you would get like a little credit card right in there and they were perforated and you would pop out all the parts for the ship and then kind of slot tavi and slot b and all that and build little tiny pirate ships and it was it was a super fun game i've got a ton of it in the basement well not a ton i've got a box with this big full of a whole bunch of them um and uh but then you use the long side or the short side of the card that you punched them out of to track like house ranges and stuff like that and it made perfect sense it was a lot of fun we used to we used to play it at the bar because we would like be in a booth at this bar that we used to go to all the time we would just and the table size was perfect and we would just be sitting there you know having our drinks and hanging out me and another friend and just just you know 15 you know little tiny sailboats all over the thing and then the waitress would come by and be like what are you guys doing it would be like yeah it's it's fine um but anyway yeah it was a good time um let's see

1:02:33 i don't think the i don't really see the problem with sticks they have they'll have a certain length and i can bet they translate well to inches um yeah i i i kind of like the stick thing in some situations song of blades and heroes does it do i have a pen yes i do so song of blades and heroes does it interestingly where when you move so here's your model right and you're looking at it top down from the table top except anyway so when you move you actually don't move from here to here kind of like you do in every other game where you measure from the front of the model to where the frontal model is going to go you actually leap frog the entire stick like that's built into the rules they tell you you start here and you go to the end of the stick so you're getting the extra length of whatever the width of your base is to your movement so bigger models get to move a little bit further because they're bigger and they probably have longer legs and stuff so that's a smart system the other thing too though is that if you want to go around a corner or something like that you have to move this far but you don't have to move to the end of the stick you could move here to this portion of the stick you wherever you end up you have to be touching the stick so if you want to go like sharper on a corner you actually have to use two like if you are moving let's say this is a medium stick and you can move up to two medium you'd have to waste almost your first medium to get to here and then do this to go around this corner right so it's an interesting system and i kind of like that and it

1:04:05 just gives you different it gives you slightly different capabilities within the game now if you were doing it just straight with tape measures you'd be like oh i want to move six inches and i just bend the tape measure go around this corner that's fine too but this is just a different style of play and i kind of liked the concept but it depends um if the stick is just basically a tape measure kind of you know then i don't understand the point then yeah but if you do something interesting like that kind of movement thing then in my mind it makes sense um but we'll see how it goes uh let me see here hey dana how are you doing aren't the gauges one two three six inches in size so people who really want to use tape measures will probably be fine yes but there's also some sort of symbols on them so instead of saying use the two inch it said it i because if you look at the video or whatever actually let's see do we have a picture um let me put the button here and then we'll go over here um so i don't know if we can blow this up can we i mean i can fake it um plus plus plus plus plus plus and then we'll do this so on this you'll notice there's a circle a square and a triangle so instead of saying short medium and

1:05:35 long they're going to tell you oh this guy gets to shoot and then this over here looks like it's a pentagram it's a hexagon hexagram yeah a pentagram right a pentagon not a pentagram that's a different thing altogether no there's a pentagon over here so you got a pentagon over here you've got a circle there a square there and a triangle so basically they're going to tell you oh this guy can't move very quickly he can only go two triangles or this gun can go three pentagons i i don't know why frankly it's i maybe it's to help with languages you know like it's easier for them to spread kind of like they did that with warcry we've got all those icons so therefore they don't have to use any words except i can't tell the difference between most of the icons it's kind of a pain there's a lot of situations like oh this icon's a skull okay cool so are 12 other ones i like so again squares triangles that's a little bit easier they could have just done this all with skulls and then i don't know how we would have fixed that problem but um but yeah so like that like seems to be what they're doing it's not so much that this is just like a normal template like you use in a lot of other games where you're like well you know that this is six inches and there's little rulers this is actually like a there's like a symbology that's attached to it so you know and again like i said it it might be to help um nationalize not nationalize localize basically i'll put it easier in in other languages is what i'm trying to say if you've played war cried all you've bought like a a new set and then there's a ton

1:07:07 of different cards in there that are in different languages but the main stat cards have no words on them so therefore there you go but i don't know if that's actually the answer or not um while we're here why don't i just do well excuse me why don't we just look at some pictures why not how about that there so um so that was the twitch stream that went for like about an hour and 15 minutes roughly um the new logo is kind of close along to the the new 40k logo which you know i mean it's fine um it's odd they're just calling the entire new set octarius but that's fine um and then you've got this kind of stuff so you've got this very orky terrain uh and you've got what is it a bunch of dice and some templates and some other jazz and some cards it looks like the little tokens and stuff like that i get the feeling because the rules are changing quite a bit that it's no longer like oh i'm readied or i'm charging or i'm like i get the feeling i was looking at those tokens quite closely when they were showing them off a little bit and i didn't show them off as much as i would have liked but i don't think there's going to be a lot of real fanciness going on there kind of like there was here's a bunch of the new models i should have that turned off um new orc dudes this guy's got just his nose hanging out um i'm gonna call that guy kenny i think um and then again here's like the whole board set up they should like when i click on them they should pop up but they don't there you go there's your terrain um

1:08:40 yeah so we're looking at one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven well technically it's ten guys in a medical box uh for the krieg and then there's one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve uh you've got ten orcs a grot and a bomb squig so that's in the box you got the core book you got the manual and the manual in this situation has the stats for the orcs in the box and the krieg in the box from what we can tell and then you've got your dice and your gauges you've got some tactical ops cards which we don't know what those are but they're probably like the the tactics cards i would hope that they're kind of like that thing from the previous game you know like you know these are the tactics that this specialist can use and that kind of specialist can use but we don't know and then there's like i said the terrain the tokens and the again 30 by 22 board so all that stuff's gonna come in the box then they start talking about other stuff that you know whatever 40k that's fine so um yeah it'll be very interesting to see how this stuff kind of works out um and again like we were talking before what the price is going to be which we don't know yet i'm going to click on that click on that get the chat back there we go um i loved pirates that still have many many small ships and tiny dice oh that was the thing too yeah you got like a like a magic card booster pack that had some and plus it came with dice and they were little tiny five millimeter six sliders they were super cool um

1:10:11 let's see here also for beginners because you don't have to remember all the numbers the models yeah i could see that too yeah uh let's see here i'm surprised uw hasn't renamed inch's skulls would be appropriate that could be that they're probably calling it octarius to avoid questions about if it's a new edition or not yeah i mean that could be a marketing thing it's kind of like when apple is like oh hey this is the new ipad everyone's like you mean the third ipad and they're like no no it's the new ipad ipad 3 no no we're not calling an ipad 3. it's the new ipad and everyone's like all right well we're going to call it ipad 3. you know what i mean like that kind of thing um yeah sometimes marketing comes up with ideas then everyone just is like okay cool we're going to ignore that because it doesn't make any sense it's been their trend to give new boxes a name like indominus and dominion yeah no that's true too that's a good point uh will they sell a board with a layer of skulls underground so using oh they sold yeah the the old um i don't know if they still sell it or not maybe they do but the old uh the original realm of battle board was a big huge plastic four by six board it was made of two foot by two foot squares and there were parts where there were like cracks in the ground and it was just all skulls underneath there because you were on a evidently skull-based planet um

1:11:27 um it's interesting that gw seems to be committed to multi-game campaigns they used to do those and i'd be jazzed for the ones the kill team component of 40k one oh yeah no i think that the i mean the there are obviously plenty of folks out there a decent number i would say it's not as big as maybe they think sometimes but there's a decent number of folks out there who are interested in playing one-off competitive play tournament play that kind of stuff that's fine i would say that the vast majority of folks don't play in big tournaments and they want to play something that is more story driven and has a beginning and a middle and an end and you play multiple games if you just play one game and they just play one game again and they just play one game again nothing wrong with that but i think i personally think it's more interesting and i think a lot of other people are finding that as well that the the more style campaign style games are more interesting to do um octarius is a sector oh i know what octarius is i'm just like it's odd that like they just name the the the box for the new completely here's the new game you know i would thought they would have called it kill team or you know something like that but you know i don't know like they didn't have a a secondary name for the original core box i think honestly i would have thought they would have called it like kill team core box or something like that but that's that's i whatever um i like the stick thing that cuts down movement around corners in life we all get a slower slow down run more see that's the thing too yeah you don't you don't run full speed around a corner i mean

1:12:59 you can be you probably fall over i'm at work right now and the dogs i work with are not just relaxing thanks to your voice uncle adam you are a life saver well i'm glad i'm able to um make dogs sleepy i guess that's that's something that's good to hear absolutely uh let's see here some would call that 2.0 most people wouldn't well i mean technically and this is what's very interesting to me so like i said in friday's video i was looking at the gw not the gw the gen con website and they were talking about kill team second edition and i was like oh my god kill team new version of kill team confirmed and then i went and did a little bit of research and found out that actually the current version of kill team is referred to as second edition by nearly nobody but it is technically referred that way in some places online like lexiconum uh and i think also on boardgamegeek is where i saw that as well and then i was like oh okay well now there's a new version of actual kill team that's being released that will be out before mid-september gen con so now i'm wondering were they talking about the actual second edition which is the current edition or were they calling the new version second it's very confusing uh and we don't know yet so uh i guess we'll see um mr squirrel says i like you and i like your content well thank you very much i appreciate that you are one of the youtubers who got me into 40k well i'm i hope you enjoy it i hope that you have a good time with the hobby i do i mean not specifically 40k i don't play that too much these days but i do paint a bunch of the models for

1:14:30 a lot of different things like kill team um and other games as well but yeah i think it's a great hobby wargaming i am a big fan of both the gaming and the hobby portion a little bit more the hobby portion i think just because i'm not particularly good at the gaming portion i'm okay at it but i'm not i'm not tournament level by any stretch of the imagination but i still have a good time so yeah absolutely so let's see here i think they called it kill team bite for the terrain the original box was definitely a bite for the terrain because it was great terrain i mean the models were fine but they were already models that have been out there before you know they were add mech and they were jeans through their cults but the terrain was spectacular and of course i wanted the book and all that other junk i got to be honest the terrain that are showing off for this new version this new this new box doesn't particularly do it for me i'm just not into orc terrain you know what i mean like i just i don't know the orc aesthetic is i i like orcs i like their vehicles very frequently but the terrain yeah i don't know it just it's fine like it's well done don't get me wrong i'm not saying it's bad terrain i'm saying aesthetically it is not fit to my tastes i guess so you know that's fine um i think the krieg models look good i'd still recommend buying some historical world war one minis instead for the sake of price well it'd be hard to get like those fancy lazy glass guns and stuff but with some kit bashing you could probably do it though um let's see like someone said this is a

1:16:00 limited time box like dominion and indominus hence the name once 2.0 launches they'll probably have a different name well i mean technically they'd well okay when they launched the original kill team box that was also limited and then they just never came out with a second box i mean they sort of did they never came out was just like this is the main core box eventually they came out that box that had like alleged space wolves and some tau in it and a little bit of terrain but that was a good difference of time later on down the road so i guess there's that but really i mean in the grand scheme of things if you want to play kill team you need the book well now you need two books but you need the core book and now you're going to need a compendium to have the rule the the stats for whatever army you want to pick but um back you know in the current version right now you basically just needed the core book unless you wanted to play with elites or unless you wanted to play with commanders or unless you wanted to play with one of the armies that weren't in that book but if you were like i got a bunch of imperial guard and i've got some terrain already i want to play kill team that's all you really need to do you know you need the book it's 40 bucks so um i'm sure that if you buy the two books going forward and you don't buy the terrain and all that stuff because you're like i don't like orcs i don't like creek i don't like that terrain or i don't like dice now the question is is that are they going to sell the rulers and the all that junk separately that's always an issue isn't it you know what i mean like if you like tokens you can get away with you can just be like all right cool i don't need to have the tokens from the box

1:17:31 i'll use whatever i'll be like okay this token means this and this token means that that's fine or you could you know you can get fancy go crafty wood and make tokens yourself or whatever 3d print them whatever that's fine um admittedly if you go down that road probably people will 3d print the rulers too but that's the thing is i'm hoping they're going to sell the rulers and stuff separately because if not people will be like well how do i get to you know that's that's the only thing that i don't like that's one of the reasons why i don't like rulers and gauges is because if you just want to use a tape measure it's a little bit harder now don't get me wrong i'm sure somebody will just measure the gauge and be like square means this and circle means this and blah blah blah and that's not but it's it's a pain in the butt now on the other hand them having another little thing to sell if you don't want to buy the box well you could buy the gauges and the tokens separately i mean they sold those cards separately in a lot of situations so i'm sure they'll go down that road but uh we'll see how it goes if they release a nids box with mid terrain it would go over huge nid um probably i could see that i think that some tyranid terrain just in any situation would go over real well mr adam are you a fan of them releasing individual kill team starter boxes with individual tokens and measure sticks so that the newer player could pick them up instead of the 2018 scalpers i mean yeah i i think that if they were to do that now the downside though is if you're like okay i already bought the big box and i want this but i don't need any more tokens or any more uh well tokens tokens their cardboard is

1:19:01 fine but i don't need any more of those plastic doohickeys in there the gauges and the rulers and stuff like that i'm not sure how they're going to handle that so yeah but yeah it'll be interesting to see how they do it like if if you don't get this initial box like you're not interested or you didn't find out about it too late or scalpers or whatever the issue is although from what i understand with indominus they kind of tried to work against scalpers to some degree at least automated bot scalpers by making it so you had to like log in and all that kind of stuff or whatever the deal was there was a whole thing that they did i didn't go on the first day to try to get dominion and all that stuff but i know there was things that they did to try to cut that down which is good it's a good thing they're making the effort companies like sony and xbox not doing that so that's also great um yeah but i think that that's a good idea absolutely they might do faction-themed rulers with the data cards it could be that could be something yeah i can see that um they sell the plastic tokens and bits need for adapts titanicus separately and or relatively small box along with the at book yeah i mean i i could see them kind of parceling that stuff out hopefully that would be smart of them to do um let's see here i can't see the gauges being mandatory especially since they're on the same sprue as the as some of the orc terrain like i said they'll probably release them separately as well but i do see them being like if they were just like oh this is this many inches and this then that'd be a different story but the fact that they're actually like there's little symbols for saying this is circle this is triangle this

1:20:32 is square it leads me to believe that they're trying to make it they're sort of trying to take the numbers out of it but i could be wrong on that g we mentioned something yesterday everything from the box will be separately available sure probably as we've seen in the past sometimes they mention things in the twitch stream which don't actually come to pass or were not necessarily 100 percent right you know these guys are basically you know adam and eddie are are not following a script per se i mean they have notes obviously and stuff like that but they're not they don't have a teleprompter there's times i think when sometimes things come out one way and then people hear that and then go okay well this is now confirmed and then it turns out that that was not exactly 100 the case so hopefully we're all right and hopefully they got everything right first try um but sometimes we would have to look at these things and go well maybe that was a mistake or maybe that was they misspoke i misspeak all the time lord knows so um you know and i'm a professional so uh yeah anyway yeah we'll see how it goes the orc terrain is beautiful and i'm one step closer to a 2k orc table for my good for my good good boys yeah i mean like i said i don't think it's bad terrain absolutely it's very well done i can't think of a time that i've seen a model from games workshop in a very long time where i'm like that's a bad model it may not fit my aesthetic it may be like i think it's i don't i don't i when i if i say something's ugly it's not that i'm saying oh it's poorly sculpted or poorly made or poorly

1:22:02 it's just like i don't like the look of it you know like i don't like harlequins i don't like space clowns they just this is not my aesthetic style but if you like them great i will show them to you and say this is an example of a well sculpted model and here's why portions and this and the way that the mold line got or not the mold line but the gap got hidden here but then i will also show you models that i'm like i like this model a lot these mold lines are garbage or these uh you know gaps are poorly placed um but it's still a good model or even it's still a model i like the look of i'm just angry about this one shoulder pad because it's got a thing run down the middle and i can't seem to gap fill it and it's a whole thing so but in in general games workshop definitely knows what they're doing with sculpting i can show you other models in other companies where i'm like this is gonna break like this is not right this is screwy whatever um this arms aren't that long that's a weird proportion that's also bad sometimes but generally but there are plenty of models out there from games workshop that i'm like like i don't like those zangors the bird dudes i just don't like bird dudes i'm just you know i've never met any bird dudes in real life i'm sure they're probably fine but i don't i wouldn't date one i don't know if that makes any sense i just don't like the look of them it's just it's an aesthetic thing and i'm just like they kind of creep me out a little bit i don't know what it is bird dudes uh kind of creep me out a little bit so um i don't know that's there you go uh let's see

1:23:32 2.0 3.0 what point does it become something new if they completely change the rules is it a new version like when macintosh went to mac i mean yeah this will definitely be a new version because it's a completely rebuilt rule system from the ground up um the reason that the current version is technically called 2.0 is because well it's called second edition technically and the new version will technically be third version is because there was a first edition and i talked about in the video on friday there was this box set that was sold that was kill team uh and it had more of a red and black logo it came with like 10 tactical marines and like 10 or 11 or 12 tau it had no terrain in it it had an instruction booklet but you still needed the base rules now if i remember correctly it did put one of the little skinny base rules books in there but then you also still needed codices uh not necessarily for those two armies they at least gave you the stats for the two armies that were in that box but if you wanted to play that version of kill team back in the day with you know something else you had to own a codex and then they had like special rules if you want to play kill team you can't play like models that do this and there's no vehicles and they had all these stats on like what you could and couldn't use whereas when the new version of kill team came out back in 2018 they're like look here's all the information all in one book which was nice and then they added a lot more books to it so you know you get that um this is getting foul oh my goodness you must have really hated corvus cabal for war cry actually i like the corvus cabal

1:25:03 but those people are dressed as birds i'm 98 sure they're like normal humans but they're wearing bird costumes kind of as opposed to being a bird person birds are very egyptian and they'll fit well with zinc absolutely don't get me wrong i'm not saying that it's a bad thing that they do them i'm just saying i don't want any this is the thing you know what i mean again it like it makes complete sense to have egyptian style bird dudes hanging out with the rubric marines and all that stuff i totally get it um and they're well sculpted and all that kind of stuff but i'm just like ugh i just don't like the look of them like again it's just an aesthetic thing sometimes there's like certain colors you don't like it doesn't make it a bad color just makes it a color you don't like you know that kind of thing you know like i just don't like bright yellow or i just don't like you know baby blue or whatever the deal is that kind of thing uh i would prefer some actual beast men in 40k flavor like that in the servants of the abyss set oh yeah no the the beastmen are awesome that's what's so weird is i'm like birdman no beastman yes i love the beastmen they're great uh and the beastmen that came in the blackstone fortress that were basically sci-fi beastman and that they had actual pistols and like i don't know chainswords i guess those were great models and i i do dig them a lot do you think all the previous books for the kill for kill team will be obsolete yes well mostly yes i think that the scenarios that are in all those books will be usable because scenarios are scenarios unless there's something that's very specifically tied to the actual rules

1:26:35 you can generally use scenarios all the time which is why books like the chapter approved books for um the yearly annual chapter approved books for 40k or the general's handbook for asia sigmar sure when the 2020 book comes out now the 2019 book portions of it are obsolete points costs and all that other junk but the the scenarios are still generally pretty playable you know what i mean like scenarios or scenarios like you could really if you if you make things a little i don't want to say generic but if you're careful you could easily produce a book of scenarios for miniature games just in general that people could buy and then be like hey look i just made a book of cool scenarios and you could use them for any kind of game excuse me that you wanted now there are times when rules are specific to science fiction type things or fantasy type things you know like a rule a scenario that really shouldn't allow for ranged combat won't work in the most sci-fi games and you know that kind of thing but for the most part it's honestly not that hard to be able to still use those scenarios and things like that you know uh down the road but nearly everything else in the elites book and nearly everything else in the command commander's book yeah that stuff's all basically uh gonna be i mean because the the all the stats like one of the reasons you buy elites or commanders is because you wanted to get the stats for the elites of the commanders all the stats are completely changing i'm not even talking about like

1:28:06 oh we're changing this guy's uh wounds to be two instead of one it's like the all of the categories are changing as from what we can tell so kind of like they did you know there's there's nothing very very much really in warcry that seems to be the same type of stats in age of sigmar but you know the the the current version of um kill team like oh these guys have got weapon skill five and in you know and they've got weapon skill five in uh in 40k as well you know like you look some of these stat lines and they would be very close there might be just something that's tweaked here and there um you know that kind of stuff so yeah space codes space codes are great um does the new kill team book everything you need in it or will you have to buy things like codices it looks like the core book is just the rules and then they have mentioned there will be a compendium which will then have all the stats for the different armies we think they've not really talked about that book they didn't show that off at all what they showed off in the twitch stream yesterday was the core book that comes in the in the new box and then there was a secondary book that basically had the stats and scenarios just for the models in that box but they said that there and it's in i think it's in the actual article they mentioned that there will be a compendium on launch that will also then have all the army lists and the stats and all that jazz for probably hopefully all of the other current armies including sisters of battle and demons and

1:29:37 you know all the other junk so hopefully they'll do that um i'd prefer it if all factions rules were in the new kill team rulebook i would too i think the only benefit to doing the compendium this way and keeping it separate is then technically they could just sell a new compendium in another year or two that has and then they could skip doing the kill team annual like i would rather frankly buy a new compendium that has a date on it then buy a kill team annual and then have to have my compendium but then go look in the kill team manual to see if the points changed you see what i'm saying just give me a new compendium i'll buy it and then that now these points are all the points as opposed to being like okay well according to compendium the points here are six yeah there's six there too this guy is 12 oh no here he's 13. like i don't want to have to do that just sell a new compendium in that situation then making the compendium separate kind of makes sense because you could just you know it's it's modular at that point whereas if it's a situation where you're you know like if you know because basically there was no way to update the core rule book in the current version of kill team because you would have just had to buy a new core rule book which would have been the rules plus also the army lists not including the ones that were missing so yeah it's a whole thing uh let me see here secretly i'm a book nerd i love books so i like how these will all be separate just so i can buy more books i mean i'm not a book nerd i love having a

1:31:08 whole bunch of different rule sets on my ipad that being said i can tell you uh from the last month and a week or last month and two weeks maybe that i've been amazed by how many folks have purchased the print version of rain and hell um income well okay so to be fair we made it so that if you bought the print version you got the pdf version for free so there's that that's a benefit i get that but i was just astounded by how many people went that way and and have been buying like we've been looking at the numbers and stuff like that and it's it's a it's a very surprising number of people that have bought the the print version so i've been you know really i i've been glad for that certainly um but i still generally buy just the pdf version of most stuff like that when i go on to like war game vault and places like that

1:32:02 uh let's see kill team i want squats that would be kind of cool yeah yeah is krieg a separate faction this time around or reskinned the guard i would assume they'd be part of the guard but i don't know i don't think they're a separate faction i guess it's possible they might have decided to go down that road but i would just think they would be part of the guard i could be wrong i think those deathcore krieger awesome i don't like the orcs or the terrain it's really good that these will be available separately see that's the thing like there's a lot of people out there that think that the orcs are awesome i think the orcs are really cool i like the krieg is fine the orcs i think are cool they're very well done and then they've i mean they're all that's the thing everything's done well it's just whether it's to your aesthetic taste the orcs are to my aesthetic taste the krieger and the the terrain is not exactly to my aesthetic taste but it's still i think well done terrain i mean i mean i could be wrong i guess when the time comes and it tries to build like here's the thing there's a great piece of terrain that is to my aesthetic taste it's called the ophidian archway and it was for um age of sigmar but it was manufactured terribly like you could not get that thing to go together without giant gaps with the pieces like it's big it was it's one of the pieces of terrain that they had produced in china and so i don't know if it like warped on the ship as it was coming back or i don't know what the deal is but try and put the affidian archway together and not have giant gaps where any of the pieces go together everything is warped like crazy i love the look of it if you can get it together properly and

1:33:34 hide the gaps which is very difficult to do but you can do it technically with a bunch of extra work it's a great looking piece but it's a piece of garbage as far as the build is concerned so there are times that sometimes even gw again it would have it's well sculpted it's just poorly manufactured so there's all kinds of little options and tweaks and changes here it's very interesting uh let me see here

1:34:02 it's gonna be funny oh i missed that everything scrolled i like a physical book just like uh just as i like 3d terrain making some hell terrain right now nice yeah i mean i like that's the thing too is i'm not a big fan of playing a skirmish game that's completely flat i like there to be physical terrain so that's one of the reasons why i've never been a big fan of like pry nexus uh arena um even rogue trader i kind of didn't like those that board and just the stuff like the models were cool and everything like that but i just if i want to play kill team i want there to be little buildings and stuff like that and be up on a hill or not a hill but a catwalk shooting it up yeah that's what i want um are you attending megacon in orlando florida next month i am not i don't know that i've heard of megacon before but no i am that is not my plan um then the first honestly the first piece of travel that i'm going to be doing this year is going to be gen con in mid-september that will be i don't think i'm going to any other thing in august so gen con which normally is in august but this year has been moved to mid-september uh that'll be my first piece of travel and we'll see how that goes and then after that i'm going to a small convention in october late october called dragon fall which is in normally it's in northern illinois but this year it's in lake geneva wisconsin as opposed to lake geneva switzerland which is very different so i'll be going to that one and then um

1:35:33 i'm going to a small tournament in northern illinois um with sam in theory we're on the waiting list so hopefully we'll get in uh but we're going to that it's called holy havoc and that's going to be an aegis sigmar doubles tournament uh which is supposed to be super casu as i've been told multiple times but vince will be there and tom and a whole bunch of people and stuff and so we're going to go to that and then um i think after that the next event after that is going to be in january end of january when my plan is to actually get a plane again for the first time in a long time and fly to vegas for the las vegas open so and let's see here they mentioned krieg being elite like units i guess we'll find out in the next card codex yeah it could be two yeah

1:36:22 um paper book feels like value i mean i get that but i also like being able to carry around 30 or 40 rule sets on a single ipad and i like being able to search for words easily which is nice too so yeah but i get it i understand what you mean um they updated the kill team website with the new factions and names interesting it wouldn't surprise me that part of the reason to launch a new edition is so that they can separate the rules from the armies sort of like in 40k that way they can modify the armies but not the rules um i mean there's part of that i think the other reason they did it was because a it's been three years since the last um launch and they seem to be on a three-year cycle with their many of their games i suspect that in 20 let's see when did kill t or when did war cry come out 2019 right so 2019 is when it came out so i would suspect probably next summer we'll see a new war cry that right or cracking out in 2019 2020 21 22 yeah probably next summer we'll see a new version of war cry i hope i'm wrong frankly because i think it seems like it's too soon but they do seem to be on a three-year cycle on pretty much everything it was three years for ages sigmar since the last version it was three years for 40k for the last version it's been three years now for um kill team last version so uh yeah we'll see i guess um but um the other reason is also like i mentioned a couple of times is because

1:37:52 they also needed to make you know it's this whole corporate thing but you always have to try to make more money than you did last year and so 2020 they made a boatload of money because of indominus and 9th edition and all that so this year to try to beat that they've got to do obviously age of sigmar 3.0 which that was already probably in the plan again talk about three years and i guess they could have decided maybe we'll wait on new kill team because of pandemic all that kind of stuff but then they were like but we need to get it out in 2021 because again trying to make more money than they did last year that's again and i'm not again this is not them being greedy or whatever it's just when you get to the point where you have shareholders and all that kind of stuff it's just a thing like if you don't try to make more money than you did last year i think you can get in trouble or something i don't know it's crazy um but there it is uh i much prefer a hard copy to be honest it's nice to have the p see that and there's a lot of things in the in life where i am in the minority as far as like oh i like this thing and everyone else is like we don't like that thing like ice cream flavors and just all kinds of different things where i'm like oh i used to oh you can't get that anymore because nobody else liked it besides me that makes sense and i've seen that happen time and time again so when a lot of people are like well i really like the print version and that's why we've done and i'm like i don't necessarily need the print version i i digress i i uh i will uh i will agree on that agree i will um basically it made a lot of sense to us to be able to take the extra time

1:39:23 because it does take extra work to make the print version you have to build in bleeds around the edges and there's a bunch of different layout tweaks and things like that but we took the time to do that because we knew we were pretty sure that would help it to sell and there's a lot of games on the war game vault website where they're just like yeah we're just going to pdf and they haven't sold quite as well because there's not a print version to do so we figured why not and it's worked out pretty well

1:39:51 let's see is there a big difference between kill team and war cry in terms of gameplay or is it mainly the armies and stats we don't know yet because the new rules for kill team we don't know what anything like that what they're like um the differences between the current version of kill team and warcry are yeah very different they're very different games um but we don't know what the new rules actually look like for the new kill team yet they've just basically said the release is going to be in august so that could be any one of 31 days if we get a new war cry i want a better campaign system their campaign system is better than the current uh kill team one but sure i agree i wouldn't i wouldn't mind seeing a better campaign system i usually go to both but this is just for the games nice yep uh personally i buy the prints to read and learn the rules and take the pdf version with me for a reference and i can understand that yeah absolutely i'd like the digital versions better if i could get a print version of the artwork i'm weird like that interesting yeah i mean i can see that i have kicked around the idea of making um of some of the artwork for rain and hell making like prints that people could buy if they were interested i need to find the right company to work with on that but i've thought about because i mean the art that frankly the art that scott from artist empire did of the stuff that we that me and vince like

1:41:21 models that we painted like this is one of them that's just easy to show you right now but there's other ones obviously um like this this stuff is amazing to me which is why if you pick up the most recent version or the most recent issue of white dwarf magazine which is 465 i don't have it within arm's reach sadly um but if i did there's like a four or five page article in this month's white dwarf 465 about uh scott who did the paint overs for our game um he they had him do a bunch of paint overs of a bunch of photos that they took of models i think and um they're definitely all obviously games workshop stuff and then he did like almost like a little tutorial about how he kind of does his process and all that kind of stuff it was super interesting so yeah i was super glad to see like him getting more recognition and things like that and now he's also doing a bunch of work for mantic as well right now he's doing a bunch of paint overs for them as well so so yeah it's very cool but i've kicked around the idea of like i said trying to produce maybe some prints in some fashion if people want to i don't know hang them in their house i don't know if you would but necessarily you know weird little demons but i do like a bunch of the artwork quite a bit i might just do it for myself we'll see i've been building age of sigmar minis lately after two years of skirmish do you find those big piles of great plastic for army games kills your soul a little hot now that you play mostly skirmish sam and i had a conversation about this last week when we were playing kill team no war cry um it's interesting because i'm thinking

1:42:53 i'm gonna be making a video about this soon actually but it's about the concept of investment so there's the money investment that you end up playing you're paying for for big army games in comparison to skirmish and there's the investment in then building and painting all them and that's a lot a whole bunch of time and then and this is kind of what sam brought up there's also just the investment of sitting down to play the game like our game of war cry was very quick i still needed to stream that night like i had to stream at 7 p.m and so we got together later in the afternoon and we still played a game of you know setup played a game of war cry shot the the breeze had a good time with it and then packed everything up and i still got home in time to eat some dinner and then you know hop on the stream on twitch at 7 p.m uh and so if we would have decided hey let's get together and play a game of age of sigmar that wouldn't have been possible in that type of time period so it just didn't work you know so it's an investment in time in the actual gameplay it's investment time in the building and painting and then it's investment in money and then also an investment in storage i mean there's a lot of investment that goes into playing the big army games and the question becomes whether or not it's worth it to you um for me it's not which is why i'm just not playing the big army games the most part anymore except for again like i said i'm building a thousand point list of night haunts for this one particular thing but still um in general yeah it's just not not not for me but i'm not saying it's bad again it's like it's an aesthetic thing except it's not aesthetic it's it's a preference thing i don't prefer to play that type of game but if you um have tons of time have a decent

1:44:24 amount of money have plenty of place to storage you know or whatever and i really really really find a benefit in in loving a big army game then that's absolutely for you but if you're like i love a big army game but i can't afford it i can't figure out where to put it all and stuff like that then you know again it becomes a value judgment on on on what you want to do and then that kind of helps you make your decision on what games you want to play um just because like it seems like everybody plays 40k that doesn't mean you need to on the other hand if you've got nobody else to play with except for the people who play 40k at your local shop you don't know anybody else then you've got a choice you've either got to then go okay well now i've got to figure out how to get at least an army together to be able to play with those folks if i want to or you've got to find a smaller game and build two small forces for it and try to get other folks to play with you so that you can maybe eventually get them to be like you know what i'll buy a force for that game and then i'll start playing it you become a gaming advocate which i made a video about like eight years ago so you know there's all these different things i totally buy a poster of the rain and hellcover it's awesome well thank you i'm actually we're working on shirts uh merch shirts maybe even some hats so that's coming soon i'm a little bummed that i can't wear the hats because i have a giant uh skull and so it doesn't yeah but the the the hat design that i'm working on i'm like i i would wear that hat but it would look like a little tiny beanie on top of me like do you ever go to and this is maybe just for the americans but when i was a kid you would go to in the summer to dairy queen and you would get a little plastic baseball cap for whatever the closest

1:45:55 baseball team was to your particular dairy queen in my case it was the milwaukee brewers and it was plastic and they would turn upside down and they would put a sundae in there and then she would eat the sundae out of the plastic baseball cap and you'd go home and then you would wash off the and then you had a cool little plastic baseball cap that's what normal baseball hats look like on my head now it's just it's very they're it's not it's a problem so the reason the one of the reasons that i wear the fezzes from the time is because i can actually get them to fit my giant skull so um i even found a place online one time but it's just known as like extra-large hats or something like that or bighats4men.com or some junk like that and i bought just a black baseball style cap that is designed for people with freakishly lard heads like me and it still just didn't look right i don't know it's bummer become an advocate for a smaller game absolutely losing big army games feels worse than losing skirmishes that's kind of the thing that's that sam was like too he's like if you lose you're like a half hour 45 minute game but if you play for like three hours and then lose you're like oh for cr yeah it's again it's an investment thing um everyone's got their own sweet spot for time money space effort when it comes to modeling painting and playing each of that trinity has its own sweet spot that's very true it's very true um yeah absolutely rain in hell fez maybe i mean honestly i should probably produce just a plain old tabletop minions fez before i go down that road because i've had a lot of people ask about it um but i don't know i i'll have to see if

1:47:27 the folks from fezerama which is where i buy my fez is from if they're going to be at gen con this year because if they are i will have a conversation with i think his name is jason uh and we will do and we'll talk a little bit about that because i would i still would like to do a a a fez but not just like it's constantly for sale it would be more of a the idea that i've had is calling it a fez starter so it's kind of like a kickstarter but it's not really it's just basically a pre-order so like we would produce a fez that i could then photograph and wear on my head in the video and all that kind of stuff and then say okay for a month we're going to take pre-orders on it and then once that month is done then we know how many that they need to produce and then they produce them and ship them and all that kind of stuff and you know there's your fed starter um so yeah um let's see here it hurts even more losing units in 40k because as i as a you go igo system often enough you're losing units and can do nothing about it for many minutes oh yeah no absolutely that's another reason why i'm not a big fan of 40k these days either is because they just won't change the activation system and it's just really in my opinion outdated and old and i'm tired of it so there's that yeah uh i hadn't thought about those baseball ice cap ice cream cups in decades just south of the illinois border here it was a cubs hat here well that makes sense sure yeah uh i'll admit a major negative for me is simply storage space for armies where do

1:48:58 i put them all i need a bag of holding yeah i can understand that if you play for three hours and know you've lost in the first half hour it can be just as bad as well yeah exactly you know now sometimes you're wrong i made a video about that long time ago but don't give up like i used to play um well i still i haven't done a while but mainly because the covet but uh a friend of mine and i were playing um star wars x-wing and we just didn't go into the 2.0 version we've just stuck with the 1.0 version it's just the two of us playing against each other and it's fine anyway um there would be times when like one of us would be like like early on in the game you'd be like well i've already lost i've lost i'm gonna lose this is not i there's no way for me to come back and then you still come back and win the game and but early on it looks like all bets you know all signs show that you're going to lose the game but if you stick it out sometimes you don't and so i made a video about don't just like give up right away but sometimes you're completely right in the first uh thought and you're like oh yeah i'm going to lose this game and then you lose it so there's that too i have a hard time getting engaged in skirmish games isn't big army games it's a shame because in theory skirmish games appeal to me a lot more see and that's the thing too there's a lot of people who are like i don't like skirmish games because i love the big army spectacle i love a big board with lots and lots and lots of models on it and tons and tons of terrain and that's totally fine but you know i am fine with that same thing shrunk down and i also appreciate the benefits that come from that as well as far as the you know all of the other stuff you know like the not having to carry a giant bag full of stuff not having to store all that stuff

1:50:29 not having to you know the terrain fits in a smaller area like all that stuff i dig that too great now i'm looking at fez's the fesorama fezzes are pretty nice um as someone else who has a melon head i also feel your pain well i literally like years ago walked up to their booth at gen con and i was looking at all the cool fuzzes and they were like would you like to try something on i'm like i'm pretty sure you don't everything to fit me and they went and grabbed a fez and they put it over my head and it was like a like a kfc bucket it just went like i think it covered my eyes and i was like huh i had no idea so i wear a 3x in their sizing but they make i think 4x and 4x and 5x so like they could yeah turns out they they do make hats that fit me they're just fez's and they're made by these guys which is why i've gone back repeatedly i think i own i believe i own five fez's from them now uh and my plan was to buy a sixth last year but then covet so this year if they're there i'll probably buy another one um and i think with six you get a with six you get egg roll no that's not true um i do prefer games where your minis get to shoot the turn that they are killed seems to help balance out the alpha strike armies yeah yeah yeah i know what you mean um some games are built well for pulling it out of the fire 40k isn't really one of them that's sometimes also true i agree photography question do you ever use macro lenses when taking pictures of your minis or just normal 50 millimeter i generally these days almost always use macro lenses for that kind of stuff though i don't not always

1:52:01 uh it's hard to kind of say it's depending upon if i'm looking for what kind of field of view i'm looking for like the lens that i'm using now on twitch actually the one that points down at the camera at the what i'm painting um that one i just recently uh updated the original lens that i had that was attached to that camera which is a sony a5100 was just a normal kit zoom that came with it which was like a 16 to 50 and i would usually set it to about 47 48 or so but the problem was i couldn't get more than about a foot away or i couldn't get any closer than a foot roughly to the lens so i couldn't do a real close-up because it would get blurry um and so now i have a straight just 50 millimeter a sony 50 millimeter macro lens which i can get to about roughly about this far away from the front element on the lens about a little bit inch and a quarter um but then the problem is when i get that close to the lens to you see something then there's it's real dark because there's no light like right there by the lens i've thought about getting one of those circle um lights like a small one just to put attached to the lens kind of almost like a filter where you screw it in there i haven't gone down that road yet but yeah i've just recently switched to a 50 for that um but otherwise for my other cameras which are mainly panasonic's or micro four thirds stuff i have a 45 millimeter macro and a 90 millimeter macro i think that's it painting terrain all day glorious i'll be doing some painting a little bit later on the afternoon

1:53:33 uh duluth trading company has a hat size for those of us with superior craniums to be fair i do own like uh like kind of a watch cap you know style like or a news boy cap type thing i own one of those that's all made out of like patchwork different and i got it from um duluth trading company now that you mentioned it i forgot about that i mean i didn't figure out the hat but i forgot about where i got it from um yeah it was one of those things where you like walking it's we have like a duluth trading company outlet store i was just like walking through looking at bins of stuff and i'm like oh that hat's kind of cool i was like i put it on i was like whoa it fits that's yeah and so so then you buy it when you find a hat that fits when you got a head this size you buy it that's generally the case not always i guess it could be a goofy hat but you know uh play infinity you react and you get to shoot back always i mean that's one of the nice things about infinity certainly is the the reaction system and all that kind of stuff i do like that there's other parts of infinity that flummoxed me and i just it just hasn't took hold uh i've had several demos of infinity including sam trying to teach me how to play and uh it's just there's times when like something happens and you're just like so that's that's that's the rule and he's like yeah that's how it goes and you're like that seems weird um so yeah just hasn't quite done it for me should probably start packing up says terrier halo been a good hobby day and this was good ending too and you people have a good one oh yeah it's getting there we've got about five more minutes left just finished planting plague drones nice uh i had such high hopes that the turn and save mechanic of apocalypse was going to make its way into ninth

1:55:05 yeah you know what i mean like it was interesting to see how apocalypse did that and go man that'd be really cool if they kind of brought some of that stuff into ninth edition and they never did yeah no i was just talking to a friend of mine recently about that like i have a suspicion they might never change the activation system to um uh to 40k because i think the competitive people would completely freak out um as it was a lot of competitive players hated the activation system for age of sigmar because there could be a possibility you might get to go to you know go twice in a row because you might go at the end of turn two and then you roll again at turn three and then you get to go first so it's like you get to go twice to which my answer is sometimes that's the way war works i guess i mean i don't know you know but it's interesting that people are trying to take and this is just from an outsider standpoint so take this with a grain of salt i think it's interesting that the competitive scene seems to be very focused on i go and then you go and i go and you go because then we can plan for it just like we do in chess you know a chess you know i know that i get to move and then you get to move and then you know and we can then plan six you know turns out or whatever like that except that there's also dice and a whole bunch of other weird random stuff that are gonna happen in the game anyway i just don't see the point to hugo i go you go i go like if you're gonna be dealing with a bunch of other random things then there's no reason in my opinion to make it just so that i have to sit here and watch you play for half an hour and then you sit and watch me play for a half an hour you

1:56:35 know and then now we're on turn two and it's just it's yeah i don't know it's just a personal preference thing i'm not telling people that if they enjoy it that they're wrong i just i don't enjoy that about it and that's one of the reasons that i don't play that and the fact that i'm just not into big army games two reasons that i currently don't play any 40k uh you know what else i like about grimdark future no wound rolls you roll to hit the opponent uh rolls to save it's so much faster and it feels like uh and and feels less feels bad vibes it took me a hard time to get that written or read uh i haven't played is it what's the grim dark one firefight is that kind of the slightly smaller more closer to kill team but not exactly kill team kind of thing from one page rules i own the rules or you know i don't know if i i don't know if it was free or if i bought the premium version on wargamevault.com i don't remember but i have it um but i haven't played it yet dead zone is fun if you get the mars attacks you can add it to that huh that's interesting why not just play chess then you know well because there's no space marines in chess so there's that um the 40k and turn sequences i feel like it's a bit of dungeons and dragons there are some things that are odd but kept for legacy's sake it's recognizable as the brand yeah i mean there's some there's definitely some let's not make any changes because change is bad sort of

1:58:07 situations going on i get that last kill tame's activation rules could work fairly well for 40k i thought so too i honestly did i was really like i think this would work great for guilty i mean i set or for 40k i remember playing a game of 40k with a friend where we used the um bolt action uh mechanic for activation so like i had five you know let's say i had eight units and my opponent had nine units and the unit could be a single character you know or it would be a unit like a squad or be a vehicle or whatever and then we just threw dice in a bag of different colors you know like his were blue and mine were red or whatever and then you reach in the bag and pull out oh a red one i get to do something and then i pick a you know a predator tank that goes and does this and fires or whatever and then we reach in the bag again oh i got a red one again cool my scouts are going to move up and then he's like okay cool my elder are going to do this and i thought it worked great it was a lot of fun um i mean honestly obviously if you just want to play with your friends and your friends are like let's do it that way knock yourself out you can totally do it obviously if you go to a tournament not going to work because they're going to be like let's roll out for first turn you can show them your dice bag and they'll be like no we're not doing that that's not how it works here i get that but amongst you and your friends that's the great thing about tabletop games is you can just make them do whatever you want the rules are there to be broken or changed or modified or whatever so yeah

1:59:35 ah let's see here built some rain and hell objectives during the show thanks for the distraction absolutely not a problem three or more chances to fail most actions you're trying to do in the game isn't my idea of a fun time yeah i can understand that uh have you ever worked with metal filters when painting minis no i haven't there's actually a video game that's straight up chess with marines and orcs huh interesting bolt action beyond the gates of antares activation is so much fun i i like it um it's the same type of activation also that starbreach kind of uses as well we thought about going down that road but we wanted it to be like it makes a ton of sense in bolt action that you would have such a fog of war that you would have no idea at any given time what the next activation was going to be we wanted to see like at the beginning of the turn we now kind of know what the activation is for the turn but the next turn could be completely different and we dug that and that's one of the reasons that we built the activation for rain and hell the way we did but it makes a lot of sense for world war ii where there's smoke and explosions and stuff like that you don't know who's going to go next and you're reaching the bag and go okay well i get to pick now and you go from there and so it's like shorter range you don't know what's going on but you have a general idea eventually all these guys are gonna get to activate we wanted to make it more like you know you're gonna see it here at the beginning of the round and then you're gonna go from there so anyway it's 11 o'clock in my neck of the woods and so uh i gotta get ready and

2:01:06 we're gonna go over to the in-laws for lunch and all that kind of stuff and i probably have to mow the lawn later or something dumb like that so um i want to thank everyone for coming by i hope that everyone is i didn't you know frankly we all kind of know roughly the same amount about what's coming from kill team just kind of what we were you know we saw but there will be more articles coming soon i'm sure they'll keep hyping and it seems like the release will be coming in august not sure when but some point if i had to guess i'd probably say later august probably but i could be wrong but if i had to guess i'd probably say later august um so yeah i'm looking forward to checking it out and getting my hands on the rules specifically everything else is kind of like yeah great okay fine but i really want to know about the rules and um i'm hoping that when i do i can kind of tell you folks about it and um we'll look forward to them all right well so thanks for coming by again if you're interested i paint on twitch as well i'll be doing that i don't think i'll be doing it tomorrow night normally i paint on monday nights at 7 00 p.m central but i've got a bunch of friends in town that i haven't seen since well two years now because of the pandemic and i think we're going to dinner so probably they'll get moved till tuesday just follow me on twitter and then i will post about it there so generally though it's monday nights but i think tomorrow it might get actually bumped and then actually be tuesday night but otherwise friday morning at 10 a.m central as well it's another place that you can another time you can watch me paint stuff on twitch so i will see you folks later and

2:02:36 thanks for watching