Daitoshi - 3p - The Discussion

[Music] thoughts on the games I mean I I quite like it uh it it's so I I don't find it abstract which is I think part of the reason I like it it sort of makes sense to me that we're like building this little city together I like how electrifying makes things better for the next person who goes there I like building this out and adding the worker placement spots you know like some of the scoring stuff it doesn't add worker placement spots it adds places that you can you can put workers a fine distinction oh no again because it's still three spots and only one of them clear them up yeah right yeah yeah so um so I I mean I I think I generally kind of enjoy the McGuffin um this is really hard to manage the um yeah the the Ain not pissing off the yo-kai Y um which I find enjoyable um yeah I like it I think it is uh a surprisingly heavy game like you'd never sort of look at the box and think it's as heavy as it is no yeah the artwork belies 100% um it really is a lot of a lot of mental work I think we're probably all feeling pretty spent right now I I oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's one of the things I I want to talk about on this um but yeah I mean I think I like all the pieces and I like how they fit together so yeah I guess I like it yeah no I I like it also um I don't um after so two three player games and one four player game I I really enjoy the three player vastly more than the four player the four player find uh because there was so much unintentional blocking of the two steam spaces uh because in a four-player game there are no more worker placement spots correct which which was incredibly frustrating when it's like you I I have these workers that I want to go use right there and constantly getting blocked and um but but yeah I like the game um I find I find it it is there's a lot of challenging um planning um I overdo it in terms of uh trying to manage my my my Wilderness tiles uh to my dment I think I think um that's something that probably I need to do a better job at production right getting the steam when you need it I I think I there was like at least two two times when I I produced little because I don't have the steam to to to join in so I was not making as many points and um and uh whereas and and Ken whenever you did your full production you were getting ah God knows how many a ton of points yeah I mean obviously it sort of builds over time these in this particular game are Point Getters real point oh oh to be clear in because of those tiles again there are others yeah five different options that it could have been that's right okay and and I think that's really interesting I I again this there's so much here that I feel like I neglect uh like the mega machine is another example um and I shouldn't uh it's just there you know you get distracted by other things right I I wanted to I wanted to build out the the the board and and and get and put tiles put Wilderness tiles on so I didn't have them on my on my board right and and um that's you know that balance is really is interesting and I and that's a challenge for me I I I struggle with that aspect but and I enjoy it um it is a bit is it's a lot of like uh make sure you do this make sure you do that make sure you do that other thing right um which but to its credit on that note as opposed to and I I look Vall is a friend of mine so he knows I'm not picking on him in this regard but whereas in like a lerta game it's a lot of steps and not all of them are always clearly delineated this one it is a very clear this is what you do in this order and it's the same things um it's just take your time and go through it so it's procedural in that in a good way like it's not a bad thing I think as as we've now got some plays through like there's some stuff that I was consistently forgetting in my earlier plays that we didn't forget tonight like it's really easy to forget your Pilgrim movement after you produce I I I think I forgot that on more than one occasion but to be fair but it is yeah I mean they're they're definitely like moving the mega machine can be hard to remember right but U but I think we did a much better job tonight like remembering the stuff so this game has aspects that I really like yeah I think there are some very interesting things I think managing the yo-kai mhm and the way that ties in with everything I think is really interesting yeah um the really hard decision not hard from a oh it's I choose do I want more from a or do I want B right so do I move out here do I produce and that decision space it's just two options but the wi is really delicious it is really great I love that I also love that each independent action is actually rather straight forward um there's enough overhead mentally to that that doesn't get in the way right so there is a lot here that I like in the end it is a resource conversion game worker placement game um however uh a and to be clear there are more things that I like I I should I should continue with those before I I hammer the other side is the variability and how that impacts the game it's not just variability for oh you're moving up this track instead of this track whatever right the fact that what the university has on offer can have a significant impact on whether or not the mega machine is prominently featured in a game and whether or not that's something you're like yeah I'm not going to bother mhm so from both this as well as the tiles that end up there y uh also what is available here for moth Zeppelin I mean white WID varies massive stuff you see there um I mean it's always going to be positive it's always going to be good but it's going to have a variable impact on the game and what the game looks like and I love that I think that's a very good implementation of variability without just oh I went up track a instead of track B whatever however mhm um and and with that variability there's still a ton to explore here I think right yeah I I would I think I'd happily get some more plays in okay yeah maybe I do I don't know and here's why uh it's too long for what it is it's long uh it's even off stream it's too long um it feels like it goes on at least one if not two orbits around the table too long for me secondly um I'll take miserable and tedious for a 2000 Alex yeah this is really look who doesn't love chaining oh my God Stu yeah it's awesome yep but there's a limit when it becomes oh that's awesome too oh my God this is just too much and this is Eclipse that for me yeah um it and it it even if it's even even if you and I had swapped seats and that I was the one that crushed I would feel the exact same way and it was just it's just Overkill of what it is and it's just it's tedious nothing about that is fun and holy is it a lot to track sure one person could do their own but we have found in our experience it's better to have two people working on one person production 100% yeah and it's just that's just not fun that's not enjoyable I hear that and it's just it takes what is a fun good thing like man chain on and it just make it it takes it from it is too much of a good thing once you go from three inven inventions you're saying it's just too much that's all yeah no I I so I I see where you're saying I I I don't struggle as much with with managing and calculating but I agree that is still still too much I I wish I kind of yeah having having once you get to once you get to six I think it becomes a problem um because and especially when you have uh when uh when like there's just uh what what it supplies uh becomes less interesting than what you're getting out of the production than what you're getting so you're doing production because that's where you're getting a ton of points well not just points but you're getting a whole lot of stuff it feels like production for point for for the purpose of getting points is is is is the bigger reason than getting the resources to work on the board and I I enjoy I enjoy work taking the actions and working the board I don't want to call production that often because I'm find it interesting and and that and my initial thought in our in my first play of this was production is a thing you take when you can't do the on board stuff because you're right it's not exciting it's it's the it's the work so you can have fun I.E do the stuff on the board sure is a lot of points yes it's like you get you get whatever all the war bus movements all those you're right those doesn't make it better it makes it better from a I'm trying to do better I mean and to be clear I mean I I feel like we all shy by we I feel like we didn't play terribly I mean we scored 250ish thereabouts um but you crushed and you you maximize you did a great job of managing production well and so um I think a something I would love to hear from the designer about um is this this there's this tension that I wonder why it's here and I I wonder if it's right B what I would say so which is that the most powerful action in the game also does not Advance the timer of the game oh produ okay this thing doesn't get you closer to the end of the game doing production you're saying correct yeah yeah all of this moves you a little closer to the end of the game yeah fact because you're always taking tiles right I get that I think one of the things that means though is that as players get more skilled the game actually is going to take longer right because you're maximizing production right I so I'm trying to think is is there is there a is there depen where the game can go where the the the Wilderness one Wilderness track is pushed and the end game it gets there FAS I don't see it because there's no way to expedite well yeah I I do Wonder once you if you know you're ahead then maybe it behooves you to push whichever track is Clos but but like but then you end up piling a bunch of yoai stuff on that one SP you need help there to make so you lose it I don't four five points whatever right yeah because the the penalty of having pissed off yo-kai at the end is especially if you just load up on one is a pit not that bad right right I you can remove two around right you can go to the town hall pick up a blue and something else and then go and then go to another space that that picks up that other that else right right so you get two of one type every round which yeah I mean that that would be um if you just basically take two turns every every every time around the circle and that might be a way to to speed that up um quite a bit but I don't think it's to the degree that that we might think it would happen I don't know 1 2 3 4 5 6 Seven 8 nine 10 no yeah 10 right yeah um I guess maybe maybe I'd be curious to see if if if if but then yeah so I mean if if the rule was when you take a production turn choose a Wilderness tile and remove it from theame throw it away yeah yeah yeah it would substantially Speed the game up yeah but it might have some consequences that would be negative like like unintended like it doesn't yeah yeah yeah no I hear you I yeah yeah right and that and that's what the peanut gallery is saying like maybe when you right look again I'm not a designer I'm not a developer there's a lot here that I really like I think it is and it is a big ass game you just you just wish it was an hour shorter and a little less complicated and here's the here it's not about the complication this this stuff is like the the board stuff is not complicated at all I think this is this is there's nothing complicated in and of itself this is sort of complicated yeah yeah that's that's the bit but I think and I think one of the things you're reacting to if I'm hearing you right is like it's complication without depth yeah like it or it's it's it's kind of like I this is my go-to and some people are going to just completely dismiss this out of hand but take splatter spellings Indonesia sure half the game is interesting half is tedium MH and the tedium is operations sure it's important thing that has to happen in that game and sure turn order matters in the operating order the whole I get that but then it's just uh where am I or trying to figure out your best route in 18xx it's an important part of the game I get it ain't nobody saying we can't wait yeah that um and so again it's not a complexity right all the complexity is I think conservice of depth yes like the way these connect to everything else the way the districts connect all that stuff is it is complex but it's complex in a way that adds dep to yeah and it it it's a good kind of brain burn whereas maybe this is just complex it's just too much yeah it's just Overkill that's all yeah I hear that um but again like is the juice worth the squeeze look if somebody said depends on my day that I'mma be perfectly honest if I had a involved day and we're going to have a game night or or we go to game day and I didn't sleep well I'm not busting this out because let's talk about that like I'm mentally exhausted from the game and again nothing as y all saw nothing in particular in the the any one thing is hard the managing of everything in a mental like okay I want to go there I need to go there I need to do this and then making making the puzzle work which is a good part of gaming that's a great thing this game hard to do well in and that's a compliment just some of the things that I'm not keen on are such a point to where I'm like I The Depths there I like it the variability is there I just don't know if in the end the if the negative outweighs my willingness to so that's me I hear that I think from I think I fall on the side of like there's enough here that I'm willing to deal with the stuff that is not ideal right but I hear you I do wonder whether the sweet spot for this game might be two players I am wondering the same we none of us have played at it two yet uh and scalability I mean again none of the worker placement spots themselves actually change yep um there are some two players Mega machine spots I think there's some other two player stuff in the maybe okay and there's a solo here as well and all my I tend not to read the two player exceptions right um from a component readability standpoint I think everything is really top-notch and really nice the player boards like all that stuff is great the only thing that still to this day looking at the board those are the work replacement spots yeah it's like that's what we chose to denote that it's it's a little bit Yeah it well once you know it it's fine yeah like we know the three out there but even I'm still finding myself looking at them a little bit as far as and even if we stand this stuff up doesn't really help us yeah that doesn't bother me I think I think the I think the the the this little thing is is is more I I if if this was my copy I would just Swap this out for a different piece that could fit in the oh also that yeah that but that's I like I I mean like I like it too tall and not heavy yet so ultimately you want play it more I do absolutely I like it I I you know I would play it more I would be happy to play it more I think um I think I I would like to be able to understand how to do what Ken does with production um because he he seems to very to figure that out yeah he it's it's impressive managing to have the steam to always like be able to run what he has and and get all those points out of it I I run my steam way too lean uh I mean it helps if you get nine worm bus movements yes sure cuz that generates four steam usually so and and this is another interesting aspect I guess there's a little bit more here to delve into is I don't mind the randomness of this stuff um what the order of the tiles are the these however I don't necessarily see these and this could be an Edward issue H it's more points and like I don't see comboing a lot of this stuff I'm not able to think of it that way and I don't because it's just oh that's cool I'll be able to get some sure I'll just grab that tile and maybe maybe Ken does a really good job of that more so I mean I think I'm mostly just taking what I get at the time right and figuring out how it goes together I think one of the cool things about this game that I think it shares in common with some other games that are a little like um you get a bunch of resources and you can figure out how to sort of like combine together like L granha is also like this yeah yeah yeah right is that like you get them all together and you're like all right there's some combination here that's going to help me I just got to think about what it is and almost with any combination of six or seven of these you're going to have good combinations you just have to figure out how to make them work right so um but yeah I I I think it's really fun it's super weird and Whimsical the theme but I actually like I like it actually quite a bit more in this context than in the Boku context cuz it's sort there's something about laying it on top of the Industrial Revolution that's like that hits for you kind of interesting yeah okay that's fair a little steampunky steampunk M aaki you know so yeah I don't know yeah I again I would play it again um provided I'm not like I didn't spend all day playing poker I'm not going to have the mental capacity to do well in so I will say this is 20 2024 release I I am going to definitely consider this for my golden El short list okay yeah I don't know if I don't I don't know if it'll ultim make the cut or not but I think it's worthy of consider oh I it's absolutely worthy of consideration I agree with that wholeheartedly yeah and even even with the I even if it's not my favorite I can still appreciate it and put it up there right so cool all right there you go that's a wrap that is uh that is daoshi so big thanks to these guys and to Paul for letting us borrow his game so thanks Paul uh thanks to everybody that uh joined and watched certainly appreciate that I'll be honest I don't think we got any new patrons during that I was a little focused so my bad on that one uh but if you do uh find Value in what we do please like And subscribe and uh consider supporting the show patreon.com HQ uh saw Danny here earlier so Danny really appreciate you stopping in game thanks game man yeah um and again look the the aspects that I don't like um I'm curious to hear your thoughts if you were so inclined to share them uh yeah that'd be cool whether on BGG or in the comments below whatever certainly would appreciate that but that's it we will be back I'll be back tomorrow with Kyle tomorrow morning with a two two-player games then you me Kyle and Greg are doing some traditional card fashion TR takers yeah like with a 52 card deck and then on Sunday we're play a cania so hopefully you join us uh I'm Edward Trey Ken you feel Vindicated after last night you feel better you feel I mean James wasn't here yeah so like like like what you said every time you and James play a game it's like we're playing both great should be a good time you all have a good night thanks by hey y'all made it this far that's awesome gold star for you maybe check out some of those other videos that are listed there subscribe to the channel consider supporting us over on patreon all those things help the channel grow and make more content for yall so thanks y'all