Answering your game design questions

0:00 if you were ever to watch me design a game um it looks like I've had a stroke it it looks like I have had a medical emergency and that 911 should be called and um maybe I'm not gonna make it because a lot of my design process is me what's up my friends and welcome to the board game Design Lab today got a little different kind of episode doing a little Q&A doing a little mailbag episode where I'm answering your questions recently I put out a survey to the bgl community and one of the little questions on there was hey if you have a question that you want me to answer on the podcast here's your chance write it down here and over a hundred questions came in and I I can't do them all here I'm G to do 10 12 13 14 something like that as many as I can get to that I I wrote down beforehand things that just kind of jumped off the page I was like oh I think I might have something to say about that and so if you don't hear your question being answered here I'm sorry and hopefully I can get to it in another episode I can probably you know I can do more of these for sure but um some interesting stuff some really interesting little nuggets in there you know things that haven't necessarily been covered on the podcast or covered in videos and so just wanted to answer those as best as I can and and again these are my thoughts my opinions your mileage may vary but these answers are based on my experiences and just some things that I've gone through designing games publishing games and and other there's some other stuff in there as well all right the first one is is is there a point when you should move on

1:31 from finding a publisher to crowdfunding a game yourself the Publishers didn't pan out but the community is backing it okay so this is an interesting place to be as a designer because you're thinking okay I want to get the game signed with a publisher who already has an infrastructure a marketing you know system they've already got an email list they've already got the things that they've got relationships with artists and graphic designers all the busy stuff but then things don't work out now I've had this happen several times where I reached out to Publishers that I really wanted to work with I thought you know I had a game that fit really well with their lineup with their company and things went you know seemingly were going well and then come of find out that I just been lied to over and over and over again you know contracts that never manifested uh you know you shake somebody's hand and it doesn't necessarily always mean something even when you when you think it should um and so you know I've been in this scenario but let's kind of back up and look at things bigger picture and then kind of dive in maybe some to some details so one thing to think about is well how many Publishers have you actually reached out to right because like I could have gone and and found more I mean there's a zillion Publishers out there and so you know I could have just wrote written more emails right go find more Publishers go to more conventions sit down have more meetings with people so how many people have you actually pitched the game to and if it's a whole bunch and nothing is working out maybe that tells you something like maybe this isn't a good product for the Marketplace not even necessarily that it's not a good game but if people aren't looking

3:03 at your game and thinking and telling you and then offering contracts based on the fact that they think that this is a sellable marketable product that can make them money then you gotta kind of take a step back and and just wonder about that now bigger companies are thinking more about the dollars and cents than you are though right so if you have a game you've been working on for a while and you're really excited about it you you think it's good right you think deserves to be out you know on people's tables across the world they're thinking how much is this going to cost me to produce manufacture the art the graphic design can I make money off of that as a designer if you're thinking about doing this yourself you don't necessarily have the same concept of things because you don't have to because you don't have that infrastructure you don't have all the different things going on that you have to make payroll you have to pay people's insurance and their loadings and all the stuff that goes along with the business side of things you're not thinking in those terms and so when you think about the margin it's very different than how they think about the margin as far as like how much can we actually make on this game you know you might might be thinking about it was like Hey you know if I have a if I run a crowdfunding campaign and and I get 300 backers wow that would be awesome where they would think if we run a crowdfunding campaign and have 300 backers this is a giant failure and we're GNA you know syn our company right maybe not in those terms but uh you know companies especially as they get bigger they need to scale up what they do and so that might be contributing as well to

4:34 what they're thinking right the the economies that they're kind of playing out in in their mind so if you have a game that has a very Niche uh target audience or has a very Niche theme it's kind of odd it's kind of out there weird kind of thing then it might not work for Publishers in general because you kind of have to go where the market goes so that's another thing to think about right is like why is it that Publishers are saying no why is it that Publishers are not panning out is it because it's not a good fit for the market for them right at scale is it because it's just not a good game which I think you really truly have to step back and and receive that if that is the truth if that is the case it's okay right we've all designed really terrible games right we we've all put lots and lots of time and effort and energy and money and all that kind of stuff into something and then it just just not very good you know that is what and so move on learn from it you know sometimes you win sometimes you learn maybe but what you're saying in the second half of this question the community is backing it okay what does that mean does that mean you have an email list built up does that mean you have like a Facebook group Facebook Community does that mean you have a lot of followers on whatever platform of your choice and like what does that mean that they're backing because if you already have buyers if you already have people saying hey here's my money right tell me where to go to to buy this thing that's a huge thing it's huge to Publishers too though like speaking as a publisher if a designer comes to me and

6:05 they say hey I've got this game it's like okay cool that's one thing but if they say hey I've got this game oh also I have an email list of a thousand people who are interested in in buying it already it's like oh shoot you already made my job so much easier because now we can just tap right into the these potential customers you've already built up you know and and now we all make more money so that makes you more publishable as a designer with with your game if that's the case if it's a good game you've got a community you've got people that want to back it then the question really becomes do you want to start a business do you want to deal with all the shenanigans all the ridiculously frustrating annoying garbage that goes with a board game company the Freight Logistics the customer service the you know Finding artists and graphic designers and and project management and all the things that go into the timeline and making sure people are getting things done on time and oh by the way they don't ever basically I've met very few people that in in the art world that get things done you know exactly when they say and and I keep hiring them um because I I like to work with those people but it's a challenging thing um so many projects get delayed just because the art gets delayed because art takes a long time so are you ready to deal with that do you want to go through all the the fun of you know setting up the crowdfunding campaigns and and the reaching out to reviewers and previewers and and content creators and there's a million things to think about do you want to do all that if so all right go for it you know if you kind of weigh the cost you know

7:37 there there's an old book that says you know foolish is the man who doesn't weigh the cost before he starts to build so weigh the cost out and if you still want to build if you still want to create this company publish your you know publish your own game through crowdfunding go for it there are hundreds of podcast episodes that I've created and other people have created there are a zillion blogs through Jamie stm's blog on STM games.com through the board game Design Lab website you'll find literally thousands of resources as far as this kind of thing goes so the information is there and then it just becomes you putting it into action so all of that to say go for it I think you can do it I believe in you let us know how it works out all right next question what is your unique selling proposition of the games that you design talking to me I in other words what makes your games special so what makes my game special so a while back I realized I wanted to find a spot in the marketplace that both fit with what I enjoy designing and with what was seemingly an underserved demographic and so I chose solo games I was designing a lot of solo games at the time there weren't a ton of solo games out there um it was pandemic is era and so a lot more people were getting into solo games and so I saw an opportunity there to create this company called best with one games and so my unique selling proposition is is it's a solo game it comes in a small box it plays in 20 to 45 minutes that's usually kind of The Sweet Spot there it's a $25

9:09 game typically and so I am leaning more and more into that and going into next year I've got the solo game of the month club basically that that I'm working on where I'll crowdfund and publish a solo game every single month of the year similar to the button shy model where every month there's going to be a game and if you're a solo gamer check it out it might be something for you every game will come in the same type of box actually if you're watching this on on video you can kind of see the uh the box that I'm going for the format this is what it looks like this is the second edition of hunted kabashi Tower it's going to be the first game coming out uh hit and crowdfunding on game found in January and then it'll release just a few months later so the cool thing about these games also is that they're already done if you see it on crowdfunding it is at least 99% done and the files are ready to go so as soon as soon as the campaign ends we go right into manufacturing like basically immediately like a week or two after the campaign closes you know when the money comes in hey let's let's hit the big green button on the printer Let's Get Off to the Races and so that speeds up all the timelines I'm also shipping directly from China so that speeds up the shipping we're not you know waiting on the freight to then get to a fulfillment center to then be in the q line for a while and then finally get out to backer just as soon as it gets done manufacturing it goes to a fulfillment center in China and ships worldwide from there and this works uh because the games are small right these small box games don't weigh very much that you can ship internationally for not a crazy

10:41 amount of money it's still not the best shipping prices in the world uh but it is it's doable and so those are SE that's several unique selling propositions all wrapped up into into one right there uh solo games the time you know 20 to 45 minutes small box easy to fit on on a shelf you know shelf space is getting more and more hard hard it's getting harder and harder to find right the cxes are are out there getting Fuller and Fuller and so when you've got these giant Campaign games these narrative driven Miniatures $100 games where do you put that on your shelf a lot more people are asking that question whereas you have a tiny you know a button shot type of you know wallet game or a small boox game a lot easier to fit it on your shelf fit it in your collection when it plays quickly it's easier to get it on the table and play it you know multiple times when it plays with one player you don't have to find other people to show up game night you just play it there by yourself and so you know those are all unique selling propositions and then also um being able to manufacture and ship and get games on somebody's table within three or four months after the crowdfunding campaign ends that's another thing that I'm going for so you know as far as like you finding your own unique selling proposition I think figure out first of all like what do you enjoy like if you if you don't enjoy a certain demographic you know a certain Target certain part of the market then it's going to be kind of hard to sustain right so if you're like oh the market needs more party games um and you don't enjoy designing party games I don't know you might be wasting your time that doesn't sound enjoyable

12:11 to me uh the reason I'm doing this the reason I'm in this industry and in this hobby is because I like it it's fun it's enjoyable I'm good at it not because of the money not because of you know all the other things that kind of go along with like a business or a job and so if you're going to turn it into a business or a job I don't know just make sure it's worth it for you but you know what are the things that are unique about the games that you design you know some some people design amazing three-hour Euro games right there's a certain part of the market that will spend a lot of money on Gray and beige Euro games that are very thinky don't have a lot of theme going on but are very interesting to play lean into that whatever it looks like for you all right the next one what's the difference between a good designer and a great designer a good good question practice um it it really truly comes down to experience like anything else any other art form any sport most professions the longer you do it the better you get assuming that you're being intentional about the time you spend right if you just show up to work and you just stare at the wall all day well you're not getting better so you know if you're there for 10 years all you've gotten and that's all you've done then all you've gotten good at is staring at the wall right so you have to be intentional you know if you want to become a great free throw shooter well there's really no substitute for shooting a billion free throws right that's there's no shortcut you just got to put in the Reps right just work your butt off and and you get better you know now are some people predisposed to be

13:43 better than others yeah probably we all have different things we're born with different things that you know kind of these unfair advantages and things like that and that could stretch across any number of things across the spectrum of life but there's really just no substitute for putting the time in putting putting in the work putting in the effort and the more you do it the better you get the more experiences you have the more wisdom you gain the more you learn from things like I said earlier sometimes you win sometimes you learn and you just you learn a lot more you know this has been a year for me with a lot of learning a lot of things that have not gone well a lot of things have not worked out as I had hoped or like I thought that they would and and with all of that comes a great deal of understanding great deal of perspective great deal of wisdom hopefully and and different things that I can now go into next year and all the next group of experiences and and have a little more knowledge have a little better you know understanding of of different things and so I think the people that we look at as the greatest game designers in the world they've been doing it a long time right I I think you have to stop thinking about it in terms of weeks and months and even years and really start thinking about it in terms of decades are you willing to put a decade into this a decade or 12 12 not 12 maybe 150 years old are you will to put a decade or or three you know into play testing into Market Research into understanding what makes a good product for the marketplace uh into design and different things are you will to do that and if so then you have the potential you have the

15:14 opportunity to be great is it going to happen I don't know there's a million different things that could happen um but I think ultimately it comes down to that all right next one how often do you wash your car man I was hoping somebody would ask me this this has been something I've been wanting to talk about on the podcast for a long time no I'm just kidding um I don't know some questions that came in were Silly and I appreciate that thank you for asking these silly questions all of this was Anonymous by the way so all of these questions that came in I don't know who sent it um which actually reminds me quite a few people when I asked the question of uh who do you want me to interview like who are some other designers who are some other people I I should interview a lot of people said me not not me as in Gabe but me is in them but the problem is the survey is anonymous and and most of the people that that that said I should interview them they didn't tell me their name email address social security number like they didn't give me anything and so um you know if you had a good idea I can't reach out to you about bringing you on the show so just be aware of that also um couple let's see one person had a customer service issue and said hey I ordered a t-shirt a board game Design Lab t-shirt a w back I never received it um but again no no name or email address so if that's you if you're listening to this you're like oh that was me I need my shirt please send me an email if you've already sent an email me another one you know sometimes things fall through the cracks I'm sorry about that I'll get it out to you if you if you bought a shirt d g I'll get you your shirt you know I'm not not trying to keep your your $19 or whatever it was so anyway if you filled out something on the survey anonymously just realize that I might not know who it was actually I

16:45 don't know I have no idea but anyway back to how often I wash my car so I I don't really um if if it ever gets washed it's like I might run it through the little car wash deal like at the gas station or something like that but but I live in a tiny little town um we don't have a car wash they're actually building a car wash right now I drove by it a few days ago they're building a car wash they tore down an old rickety I don't know Shack kind of thing over there next to Taco Bell and um they're building a new little car wash so maybe maybe I'll wash my car more often if it does get washed it's because my kids have done it either because they were just trying to love me just trying to serve you know just trying to make me feel good about life or they needed some money and they said hey you know I need to buy this thing and I'm like hey get you a job and um they said what can we do I I don't know pull weeds I don't want pull weeds okay wash the car and so that's uh I don't know couple times a year next question how do you make the leap from showing prototypes to your friends and family to showing strangers that's a tough one that is a that's a leap that's a leap and a half how do you make the leap you you just do I mean there's no there's no magic I feel like a lot of times as creative people were looking for that like magic sauce you know the Magic Bullet to oh this is how you do it I just you you just put it in a box and take it to the game store or take it to a unpub or a you know play testing event or a convention and and you just sit down and and you hope for the best and it probably isn't going to go great maybe it goes okay but you know and then you just you realize it didn't kill you and then you you do it again you know and and sometimes it it turns

18:17 out really bad and you just you find a way to keep keep going you don't let it dishearten you even when things don't go well and even when things don't go great I feel like sometimes we have such builtup expectations for things so maybe that's another thing is just squash your expectations don't go into it thinking anything just go into it and then you know you might be pleasantly surprised you know maybe your game actually is really awesome but if it turns out that the game that you've worked on forever um is just not very good or at least just not very good for the couple people that you played it with right because that could also be the thing right maybe this game is just not for them it's way it goes sometimes but if you go into it without expectation I think you're much more likely to have a good EXP experience and get better feedback get better notes that you can write down for things because you're not sitting there so worried about anything it's just it just is you know I was thinking about this the other day like so often we get into this trap of thinking in terms of good and bad when I feel like most things just are you know with with a big enough time Horizon sometimes good things turn bad and sometimes bad things turn good I mean there are plenty of people who won the lottery and thought Oh this is the best day of my life and then you know 5 years L they're they're bankrupt and their family hates them and life is just in shambles and so you know that was something good that turned back I like well I don't know it just is you know these things they just are and so just sit down at a play test go to your local game store or go to a convention take your game with you and just build up the courage to ask you know it's kind

19:48 of like dating if you never get the courage to walk across the room and tell somebody your name I know we live in a day and age where you just swipe right or left or I don't even know which direction s but anyway like I know we live in that but if you really want to find somebody worth finding um you're Pro you're probably going to meet them in the real world and at least at some point so you got to get up enough courage to walk across the room introduce yourself and just ask and say hey I've got a game if you know that's why these play test events are so great the UN pubs and Proto spiels and the um play test rooms at conventions because everybody knows why you're here right it's not awkward or uncomfortable for you to ask somebody to play a prototype that's that's why we're here you know Proto at in Atlanta is an excellent event I highly recommend I've been to that one it's it's great had a lot of fun you know get a lot of good feedback there and so just do it I know it can be intimidating but you got it you got this again I believe in you I think you can if you're listening to this if you're watching this then you're already in the right spot then you're already in the right place you've already kind of got your mindset thinking towards you you're already being intentional and so you got just do it just go just go do it and if it doesn't work out I don't know do it again put your reps in all all you can do next one have you tried implementing games or game designs into homeschooling if so what have you found works well so if you don't know I think I've mentioned this several times on the podcast but my wife and I we homeschool our kids we have four children of various ages and yeah we we just well we started doing in Honduras um even before the pandemic it just it

21:18 was just better a better fit for us kind of where we were living up in the mountains there in Honduras to just homeschool and and that was just kind of a better situation in the pandemic H and I was like oh well we're already doing this but we got a lot better at it and then as we move back to the States just based on grade levels and based on where every every kid is at anyway we just you know it wasn't some big political thing or anything like that but um we just found it's a good fit for us I like the flexibility being able to be like hey let's go do something on Thursday at 11:00 a because we can and when you come back you can finish your school then you I like that flexibility and I like being able to just teach my kids exactly what I want them to know at 11:00 a.m. on a Tuesday when I'm like hey let's talk about how to make a good YouTube thumbnail like let's talk about these things so I like that as far as games and homeschooling yeah we use games all the time um games are wonderful to kind of break the ice kind of get things going get kids into all right you know we're not just G to Dive Right into history or chemistry whatever let's play a game first and that kind of gets kids warmed up or as a reward or as a competition you know sometimes using like dexterity games especially with my younger kids that's fun kind of getting them you know used to you know used to using their hands and eyes and all the coordination and things that go along with that but um yeah I don't know that we use it as far as like educational I you could there's plenty of really good education games out there that are actually fun they're actually not just Bland dry you know 2 plus two equals four okay move of space kind of thing but um yeah I think don't overthink it don't put pressure on it like just have

22:49 some fun also finding ways to teach kids the business side of things right to talk about okay here's why the back of the box looks like this here's what all of this information means here's what a barcode is here's what all these little country codes or all these you know all the different stuff to talk about the business side talk about okay I'm assuming based on my experience how much this game cost to manufacturer okay here the box box costs this here these components these cards come about that side talk about the marketing talking about the colors talking about the graphic design like there's so many cool things that you can bring up you know bring to your kids awareness you know while you're playing the game and again they don't they don't care necessarily you're not going to change your life with the graphic design nuances of the rule book but you know it's it's putting seeds right it's getting them thinking in different terms when I was growing up nobody talked to me about business nobody talked to me about marketing nobody talked to me about any of that stuff you know um and not it wasn't their fault they didn't know either you know my parents didn't know anything they were Factory workers and you know we lived in a single wide trailer for a while and U it just you know wasn't something on their radar to sit down and be like okay let's talk about the nuances of of the tax code and so so you know thinking about my opportunity and all the experience I have now I'm trying to pass it on to my kids one thing that really helped me as a parent was understanding and realizing kind of figuring out I'm not raising kids I'm training adults and that's a very different thing and so you know whenever time comes for them to go off to college go out into the world you know whenever that is that they are

24:20 prepared that they're ready to go and if I can use games to kind of help them get there awesome that works out for everybody oh also getting them to play test your prototypes and calling it you know school time hey that works too especially you know design a game for families or also you know my kids are getting a little bit older so they can play a little more complicated games now but uh yeah that works too all right next question how do you transition from full-time day job to full-time game designer okay couple paths one is to get a job working for a board game Publishing Company Funko has hired lots of people that I know uh you know asade owns 74% of the industry at this point get a job with them but you know there are certain companies that are pretty big usually that have access to lots of ips you know like Marvel and Star Wars and all the different things that go with you know being able to get into Walmart and Target and sell a lot of copies to a lot of people um so get a job with one of them and that's that's pretty cool gig right you get a steady paycheck you get benefits more than likely with insurance and different things a lot of those jobs you can work remotely or at least kind of Remish where you have to be in a certain State and you have to like you know come in certain times of year meet at conventions like there's different things like that but that that's one way that I've seen a lot of people in the industry go full-time as game designers now the downside to that is you don't necessarily get to choose which games you work on like you might have a kind of a say but overall the company or the people above you are like hey here's the games that we're working on Bob you're doing this one and Steve

25:51 you're doing this one and Susan you're over here and so you kind of get assigned projects and um you might you know you have a little little say here and there but it's not like oh I've got this passion project I'm going to make it you know I'm going to bring it to life here working for this company it's like probably not so but you're still full-time you're still making money design games the other path is to design games that a lot of people buy you know and either license it to Publishers or you know publish them yourself but to go fulltime as strictly a game designer like you're not publishing your own games you're going to have to design some hits like some Evergreen you know award winning doing really well selling a lot of copies every single year to be able to actually make real money now if you're single and you don't mind living in the middle of nowhere and you know your cost of living can go way way down and you don't mind sacrificing then you know you don't have to you don't have to design quite as many hits quite as many games but um overall you're just GNA have to design some really quality games and another downside is you all right so you design a game you pitch it to a publisher they love it they think oh man this is going to make a zillion dollars there's still a delay right it's still a pretty good lag between them signing it and maybe giving you you know 500 bucks th000 bucks whatever in advance but then it takes you know two years for the game to come out there's there's development work you know wherever you are in the que line of their their pipeline they've got other games in front of you then if you run a crowdfunding campaign then you got to finish the game and then it's got to get manufactured and then it's got to get out to backers and it's got to get

27:21 out to reviewers and out to game stores and customers and then stuff starts rolling in oh this is a great game comes a hit and then people want to buy it three years later right after you sign it so it takes time I think that's nothing can kind of keeps coming up over and over again be intentional and realize this stuff takes time but U yeah those are kind of the two paths that I understand all right next question how done quote unquote should your game or prototype be before pitching it to a publisher uh that's a good question done enough my my rule of thumb is I want the game to be done enough to the point where after after I pitch it if the publisher says o I want to take this with me or if it's an an online pitch that they say oh can you send this to me now that the game is good to go right it's already playable it's already you know basically done you know 90ish percent done maybe there's some things that need to be tweaked and some numbers that need to be balanced and different things like that um but you know have the rule book ready to go have as much of the game finished is as you can just in case they love it and they want to play it now like they want to take it back to the hotel room with them they want to take it home they want you to mail it to them immediately just be ready for that right because that I think that's a perfect case scenario that's a perfect world and so be prepared for massive success right be prepared for the perfect thing to happen and so whatever that looks like for your game in particular just make sure it's it's at that point all right next question with so many games on the market what are some of your strategies to determine if a game's mechanisms or

28:52 general design is novel novel okay so novel being new unique interesting set apart how novel do you want it to be right you got to be careful not being too novel because then people don't understand it that's kind of the downside of being like wildly creative is that people don't understand you until after you're dead and so don't make something so unique that people are like what is this um I don't know novel enough novel it depends right so I'm looking at experience this might be you know deck building game number 4,722 but is the experience new does it bring something interesting to the table that I haven't seen a deck building game do before right and that could be mechanically it could be thematically it could be experientially but like what are some interesting nuances interesting things that this game is doing that's going to create a new emotion a new feeling a new experience for me the player and that could be you know not new mechanisms but it could just be a new intersection of mechanisms right it could be you know mixing deck building with area control you know in some kind of way or mixing social deduction with worker placement like whatever you're doing like you can use tried and true ideas you know you've you seen games that use these mechanisms it works really well it's a lot of fun okay pull that out oh this other idea over here okay that sold a zillion copies that at Works pull that out what if we put those two things together now we've got a new game so I think that that's what I would be looking for um if people are saying oh this is just

30:23 pandemic but in space like oh okay maybe that's not quite new enough now if they say oh this reminds me of pandemic there's nothing wrong with that that's that's not a bad thing but if if people are saying oh this is a lot like or this is just like or this is okay thematically different but this is kind of the same game as X Y or Z maybe go back to the drawing board and figure out how you make something new in different more novel to your question but uh yeah as far as like strategies I I don't know not really a strategy it's just uh play a lot of games watch a lot of Dice Tower reviews and shut up and sit down reviews and kind of have an an idea of what's going on going on in the marketplace place and then U you know when when you're looking at games you're playing your own prototypes you kind of you kind of have a feeling you kind of know but you kind of have to have your finger on the pulse of the market in general so be aware of that you know game design is not something that works very well in complete isolation right one you have to have other people to help you get the game you to a place where it's fun right you have to play testers and developers and people like that but also you can't just like disappear off into the Wilderness and then come back a year later it's like well what's changed how's the market different now so just some things to be aware of all right next one what has been your most memorable moment playing a board game thus far in life I've had a few um most of which I've already talked about on the show but kind of my top three playing Shadows over Camelot with my wife's family and her grandmother was the traitor and nobody expected that and then she won the game and it was just this like ridiculous moment U as she was like about to place the final catapult

31:54 which is one of the ending you know Game ending triggers and we were like no no no no if you can't do that if you if you do that we'll all lose and she was like yeah I know and she put it in she's like I win ha and we were all just devastated so that was well a good moment um another one is playing Ticket to Ride with my friend Randy while he was dying of cancer and you know Ticket to Ride became just this amazing way for him to escape and to have a lot of fun with family and friends and he he played like a thousand games of ticket ride while he was kind of slowly moving on over to the other side and um yeah I'll never get that and um then one of the biggest ones probably the biggest one is playing board games with people experiencing homelessness in Atlanta in this just kind of crazy moment where we ran out of food we were serving lunch at the soup kitchen we ran out of food and so we were in the process of of getting more food we had sent some people out to the grocery store they got lost so like we had this like time period of like H okay so sorry I know we told you that lunch was served but we didn't expect 300 people to show up we expected 125 and so we were in this like weird okay what do we do and um a guy that was working at the the soup kitchen was like well this big box of board games got donated to us the other day why don't you see if people want to play games and I thought that was the dumbest idea I've ever heard but I went up to the front of the room and I was like hey sorry but um we got these games and people loved it they just started playing Jenga and checkers and chess and all you know all the battleship and all the kind of basic Mass Market type stuff but man what a

33:25 cool experience and every single time after that that I took groups to serve lunch at that soup kitchen which was probably I mean it's hundreds and hundreds of times after that um I used to part that was my job was was leading mission trips and so you know every time hundreds and hundreds of times we we brought games with us you know I went out and bought all sorts of games and um yeah it's just a lot of fun sit down and play games with people you know get to the table and no matter who you are no matter how much money you have what you got you know at home if you don't have a home we all speak game right we all speak fun and so be able to sit down with people share lunch share a moment have a you know a game of Jenga it's just I don't know it's as good as it get next question what is your favorite board game mechanism I love dexterity I love anything where the ball is literally in my hands to win or lose uh there's no dice there's no card draw there's no like oh well this happened here and Bob did that and Susan did that and and Ricky over here did that no no no I'm going to win or lose based on my ability to stack or throw or catch or like do something I I just love it and you'll notice in my own games the games I designed there's a lot of dexterity in there even if it's not really a dexterity game I will find a way to bring dexterity into this game where it maybe has no business being but I think it's cool I think it's fun and maybe there's a few more people out there like me so dexterity all the way all right

34:56 next question how can a new designer build interest SL awareness for their game okay social media is good good way to do it it's good friend um I wouldn't say it's a good friend in general but it could be a good friend to help you get your name out there um I think social media might be the destruction of society but you know that's not what we're talking about so um get in groups board game Design Lab group is a wonderful place to kind of not find buyers but to find people to help you get awareness right to help you um link up to the right places but there's lots of Facebook groups out there board game Revolution is good the board game Geek Group I don't know I don't spend much time there Dice Tower Group I found to be really good uh anyway so there's lots of groups you just kind of have to find a place uh Reddit I don't know red is kind of Hit or Miss so I don't know I've had terrible experiences there I know a lot of other people have not had a lot of fun there either um but that could be a place to kind of get things going a lot of these places though you got to be careful careful how you preface or how you like present your game your idea what you're working on because a lot of places if it's just the hint of you may be trying to sell something they will shut it down delete your stuff ban you like immediately and so you kind of have to be aware be aware of that and and you know go in with that understanding right um now my thought is be a ladder Builder more than you're a ladder climber right always give way more then you take um

36:28 always you know give give give give give give until you can't give anymore and then ask right as far as this kind of stuff goes as a new designer too I mean just be patient again it's time it just takes time the the best way to build awareness is to put out an amazing game I mean the best marketing is a great product right a product that people tell their friends about people buy and then leave good reviews and then that helps you get more sales so don't overthink your first design your first five designs um build a body of work that then you get known for something right um you get known for making great games I think that's the best thing you can do all right next question what does your initial game process look like as in your first solo play testing right after you've had an idea so if you were ever to watch me design a game um it looks like I've had a stroke it it looks like I have had a medical emergency and that 911 should be called and um maybe I'm not gonna make it because a lot of my design process is me sitting in my chair staring at the table staring at the components that I've kind of created usually these are just like note cards and some dice maybe some ponds and cubes I've pulled from another game or you know from whatever and I'm just staring at the table and I'm mentally playing the game over and over and over again trying to figure out okay turn one I could do this and I could roll a die I

37:58 could move here I could have these two choices I could have these actions available like but I'm processing all the different things in my head and I'm I'm not doing anything physically it's all mental and I'm kind of playing out the scenarios like okay what if I do that well no that's that's kind of boring or what if I do this over here I don't why why would you do that like what's the point of but anyway I'm just kind of playing the game in my head so it it looks yeah what does my process look like it looks like me looking looks looks like me just staring into the void of my table and trying to figure out is this is this any any good is this idea worth pursuing probably not but maybe I can kind of figure it out and eventually I'll start you know writing more things down and creating a better looking prototype but it's still still it's a lot of just staring at my stuff and last question what types of games are there not enough of great ones there's not enough great games a lot of good a lot of really good games out there not a ton of great ones not a ton of games that are going to stand the test of time with so many games coming out you know roughly a thousand Games come out at Gen Con every year on top of all the Kickstarter campaigns on top of all the reprints on top of all the things in the marketplace and there's a lot of really good things out there um we were in just an incredible time of good choices when it comes to games but when it comes to which of these games are are people still going to be playing Five years from now 10 years from now 20 years from now very few very few of those and so as

39:32 a designer I think it's tough because it's like what does it take to go from good to great time like we've been talking about but I don't know there's just some little extra something in there extra little Nuance extra little twist on the experience to take a game from being oh that's really good to that's my favorite game of all time that's that's my top 10 in my top 10 list of games ever made um and how do you as a designer take things to that next level and and that's the literally the million-dollar question uh as far as all this goes but um yeah we just need more great games and that means putting more time and effort in but anyway thank you so much for listening I hope you've enjoyed this mailbag episode this little Q&A and uh this is fun just kind of sit down and go through bunch of questions and uh hopefully you found some good nuggets of wisdom some ideas in there and yeah I can do more of these I've got you know 90 more questions I can pull from and you know if you ever have a question feel free to send me an email forgame designlab gmail.com but good luck out there I mean it's it's tough we're in weird times everywhere in life you especially creative life like what does it look like to to do this can you make a living from this how I don't know it's strange right it's such a strange time to be alive but also amazing right we we we have so many opportunities in front of us too many probably too many opportunities and so

41:03 the challenge of Modern Life is is focus it's figuring out what do I put my my attention on and with so many things trying to pull on us you know these little black mirrors in our pocket right these little phones that are just eating up our lives pulling our Focus away pulling our attention and so how can we as designers put our attention on things that really matter and in our case it's creating experiences for other people right other opportunities for for people to have fun people we've never met people we will never meet right different parts of the world that our game could land on their table and create a fun enjoyable experience for them to have to create memories with people that they care about so closing thought is let's let's be really good let's be good to to each other let's help each other you know everybody's fighting a hard battle right now but how as designers can we put our attention and our focus on the things that matter in our case it's it's bringing joy to people's lives especially in some some hard times but uh anyway again thanks for listening thank you so much for being part of the board game Design Lab community and good luck with everything you got going on right

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