Avoid the most common pitfalls which cost game designers money!

0:00 Go for Broke is a board game designer. This was a

0:04 sarcastic video that I posted last week where I talked about all the different ways that you could lose money if you wanted to as a board game designer set up with the premise of being a recipient of a fortune and tasked with losing that fortune and choosing to use board game design as your main methodology for doing so. And I said at the end of that video that I was going to revisit it because it was a a tongue-in-cheek video and maybe try and look at a more serious approach to this, really unpick each of the points that I illustrated in that video and talk about why these things lead to people potentially losing money. So, we'll get straight into the video and I'll stop it at certain points and I'll let you know what my thoughts are around each of these topics and why I chose to to raise them in that video.

0:52 Your wealthy uncle has died. His last will declares his fortune will go to whichever relative can lose the most money the fastest. Your brother heads straight to the casino. Your sister, well, she buys a sports car. But you, well, you have a better idea, a sure fire way of squandering your life savings. You decide to become a board game designer. So, the first thing to say is clearly this is a an old board game theme, isn't it? So, in when I was a kid, there was a game Go for Broke that was extremely popular which had exactly this this setting, this idea to it. And the same thing in a a more recent strategic game, although this is pretty old now, the game Last Will, which must be 15 or 20 years old at this point, which was a a more European style strategic game with a degree of complexity to it, but again with this idea of a a dead uncle who's left their inheritance and you've got to spend the money, which is why I thought it was quite a nice framing for this video because it does link nicely to the board game world. Although, I would say those are the only two games that I'm aware of that use this theme, and I think it's a lovely theme, and it's been a long time. So, maybe there's an opportunity here for somebody to pick that theme up and and have another crack at it. In this video, I will provide you with everything you need to know to lose as much money as you can through board game design. 10 essential tips to go for broke as a board game designer. Tip one, play as few games as possible. You played a few games of Risk as a kid, you

2:24 love a bit of Uno, well, that will probably suffice. We're not creating War and Peace here. It's just a box of cardboard and plastic, right? No, no. Playing other games will only dilute your vision. Okay, so play as few games as possible. Um clearly, the counter to that, the real advice, is play as many games as you can. And I I suppose how does that link to losing money? I I think I'm thinking of the probably if you go to game conventions, you'll have seen these people that I'm about to describe. If you go to UK Games Expo, if you go to Essen Spiel, these people are there. Now, what I mean by these people is usually one person or a couple of people, often they might they they they look like they might be family members, right? A husband and wife or a a mother and daughter or a you know, a a father and daughter.

3:14 And they have set up a stall, they've bought booked a stall at this convention, and they've produced copies of a game that they have made. And when you look at the game, it looks like something from the 1970s or the 1980s, and and maybe even then it wouldn't have been a splashy big deal. It looks very um naively put together. Often with a a roll and move mechanism, often with very simplistic components, um and nothing very graphically appealing about it. Usually, it looks like some sort of derivative of Monopoly. You're moving around a track and you're, you know, leaping ahead and falling back and so on. And often, they seem to have an educational bent or something like that in there, too. Um and and I really am stereotyping here, I know. But but I do see these people pretty frequently and it always immediately, my heart goes out to them because I understand how it's come about. This is somebody who has probably loved playing games as a child, uh but has never really ventured beyond that.

4:24 And they may not have played more than 10, 15 games in their entire life. And they maybe love Uno and Risk, as I mentioned in this, and Monopoly, and so on. But they they weren't even aware that this broader world of games existed, let alone having engaged with it. And here they find themselves at one of the world's biggest board game conventions and trade fairs, where there are thousands and thousands of games, all very modern, all very sophisticated. And they're well out of their depth. Now, that's fine. They're going to learn fast. But the key thing is, they've already spent a lot of money on stock, and that money's not coming back. These people are going to sit with a garage full of board games, their stock that they've purchased. And and that's a dreadful shame. That's only going to put them off from from doing anything further.

5:15 I do get people who will occasionally come to our playtest group with this similar sort of experience. And thankfully, thankfully, the fact they've come to the playtest group gives us an opportunity to talk to them and explain to them about how the market works and what the industry is like right now. And hopefully, they will learn from that and take those messages away. But I also get people coming to the group who have already spent a lot of money on generating games. And by coming to the group, what they're really doing is asking, "Well, how do I sell this stuff that I've already purchased?" And that's a disaster, frankly. At that point, they're going to lose a lot of money, um, which as I said is is a real shame.

5:51 Two. Utilize a beloved theme. Familiarity sells. Orcs and Goblins, that sounds like a winner. Or if you really want to go a little bit darker, how about zombies or pirates or zombie pirates in space? If you really want to avoid shifting units, blending in with the competition is where it's at.

6:10 Okay, so I always feel a little bit torn on this one because I'm a great believer that familiarity is useful. Okay, it it it breaks down a lot of barriers for people who want to play games, right? If they recognize something that they already like, they already know, they already understand, that takes away a lot of the hurdles that prevent people from from playing games. Because playing games is quite anxiety-inducing for a lot of people. So, I think familiarity is great. It allows you to get your message across quickly. People know what to expect. But, there are numerous games coming out. There are thousands of games coming out every year, and many of them use very, very similar themes. And so, it can make it very difficult for your game to stand out compared to somebody else's. So, I'm not really advocating for massive, innovative twists. You know, I I you we can go down to the real uh the real niches. We could create something that's very, very specific and and has a tiny audience. And yes, it'll be brand new, but it's not going to appeal to a huge number of people.

7:16 But, we can also what we're really looking out for is is the things that do have a big audience that is so far untapped. That's what Wingspan did, right? It I mean, a box full of birds. Everyone's a little bit interested in birds, and a lot of people are very interested in birds. And yet, there were very few games around that topic. So, that's a fantastic new theme to utilize. Of course, following that, there's lots of other games about birds now, and they all have diminishing returns because Wingspan's kind of already done it. So, I'm not saying don't use a theme that has been used before, but each time you've got to find your unique take on it. Why would somebody want to play this rather than that other version? Why does someone want to play your zombie game? Why does someone want to play your space game? Why does somebody want to play your pirate game? It's got to be different, and it has to wear that difference on its sleeve. So, that difference can't be some subtlety. It's It's got to be there up front and center. When they look at the box, why is this one different to that other game over there? Okay. So, as I said before about um Go for Broke and Last Will, what a fantastic theme.

8:26 Even now, 15 or 20 years since the last iteration of that theme, people are going to compare a game with that theme to Last Will or Go for Broke. But, the advantage you've got right now is that no one's used that theme for that length of time. And Last Will is probably not widely available. I don't So, there probably are still copies of it around and about, but I don't think it's had a recent reprinting or not to my knowledge. And Go for Broke is so old-school that it's not really part of that same marketplace. It's not It's not It's not a game that modern board game hobbyists would be looking out for. So, although that theme has been used and well used, it's also well loved and familiar, and people might get on board with it. So, yeah, it's about finding the balance, isn't it, between familiarity um and not over done. Tip three, make the game as long as possible. Ensure that every turn involves at least seven separate phases. Board gaming is a social experience, so we want the other players to have as many opportunities as possible to make chitchat or to check their phones while you take your turn.

9:31 Ideally, we want the players to barely notice that the game is even happening. If your goal is to lose money, you definitely don't want anyone telling people about the wonderful experience they had playing your game. Slow and arduous,

9:44 that's the way to go.

9:46 So, I think I got to the key point towards the end of that little segment. Um which is that board games sell themselves, right? You want people who play your game to become advocates for your game. You want them to tell other people about their wonderful experience. And so, yes, people might buy your game even if it's a particularly long game, but they're not going to get it to very often. And if they do get it to the table, they might give up halfway, or they might uh decide, "Oh, do you know what? It's going to be a while before I try that one again." Which means it's not getting in front of many people very fast. You want your game to get in front of lots of people as rapidly as possible in order that they can go out and sell the game to other people. So, long games, they have an audience, certainly. And if you are a publisher or working with a publisher that has a particularly dedicated audience that loves that sort of thing, then great, you know, feed them what they want, give them what they want. But if you don't have that dedicated audience, then I think creating something that's very long um and and arduous and hard work is only going to limit the number of people who can play that game. And ultimately, you're not going to get the momentum that you might get by creating something that people can recommend to their friends and share with lots and lots of people. And that brings us to number four. Never remove a mechanism. This design is your magnum opus, right? Every idea you've ever had deserves to be in this game. Area control, hidden roles, deck building, roll and move. There's no need to choose. Dexterity, trick taking,

11:16 the great thing about board game design is that you really can have it all. If players can remember what they're supposed to be doing without consulting the rulebook, then you've made a serious mistake. Every rule that you refuse to simplify is another lost customer, another player who thinks, "Do you know what? Monopoly was actually fine."

11:37 That's maybe that's part of the problem. Monopoly is fine, right? That for a lot of people it's exactly what they want. It's exactly, you know, this is far as they want to go in terms of dipping their toe in in board games. It's fine. And if they play your game and they find it frustrating and difficult and challenging, then they may just default back to games like Monopoly that they've enjoyed in the past and never try again. Um I I don't know if there's something quite nice about the fact that as a board game designer, you sort of can have it all. You can throw in as many mechanisms. It's in It's incredible the way that different mechanisms come together and the amazing experiences you can create by taking, you know, apparently completely, um, different mechanisms that you wouldn't imagine in the world that they could gel together and yet they do and they create these fantastic experiences.

12:24 But don't get over excited cuz you put too much of that stuff together, you're just creating barrier upon barrier upon barrier, hurdle upon hurdle. And even if it creates an intriguing puzzle for somebody who's extremely committed, it's going to make it challenging to sell that game. First aside from anything else, it's going to make it very difficult for you to describe what that game is to anybody. You've got to be able to say to your customers, "This is what the game is." in a few seconds. And retailers have got to say that to customers or you've got to be able to say that to publishers. You know, the game needs to be able to be sold within 10, 20 seconds, otherwise people's minds are wandering that that that they're disappearing. And if you've got layers of mechanisms upon mechanisms upon mechanisms, it doesn't only make the game difficult to learn and teach, it also makes it incredibly difficult for anybody to sell. Number five, before doing any substantial play testing, invest in some good quality artwork. Nothing too fancy, just a couple of hundred unique pieces. You can't expect people to judge your mechanisms unless they're surrounded by 200 gorgeous illustrations and a tray of custom miniatures. And the great thing about this is that any potential publisher is going to throw it all out anyway and commission their own. So, it's essentially money straight down the drain and that's exactly what we're looking for.

13:41 So, a lot of the tips in this video are probably ways that people lose money when they're self-publishing games, but this is one where people lose money even if they're licensing their games to publishers. And I see it sadly fairly frequently that people invest a lot in commissioning artwork, in creating custom components and miniatures before they've got any publisher interested. And actually, they can become very precious about this stuff and and they want a publisher to take on the game and make the game, but they don't want them to change anything and that includes the artwork and the components. And that's a bit of a non-starter. Publishers are investing a lot of time and money, taking all the risk, and they want to put their own stamp on the game, and they know what's going to work with their audience. They want it to fit within their broad catalog. So, they are going to throw any artwork that you've created out. So, if you're spending money on artwork, if you're spending money on components, that is money that is wasted.

14:35 So, take great care with that. Um it it means that you're going to have to create a prototype that looks a little bit pieced together, right? Pulled together from various different sources without spending substantial amounts of money on it. Um at the moment, my go-to approach for making prototypes is to use Canva. Okay, Canva with a paid subscription gives you access to quite a large uh library of clip art. Okay, so most things that I want, I can take from Canva clip art and put them into a prototype and it may not look entirely coherent and the images might not all match with each other, but it looks good enough for me to then show it to a publisher and it's a very easy tool to use. Um I said a paid subscription, so I do pay a monthly fee, but it's not a huge amount, and with the amount of prototypes that I make, it's actually a very minor expense of mine.

15:27 And I use Canva all the time for all sorts of different projects both in my day job as well as it So, it's it's kind of that investment is very, very minor. But that artwork helps me to give put across the idea of the game, the mood of the game, what it might look like, you know, give the publisher a little bit of an idea about what sort of thing I imagine it might look like, but ultimately it's going to be their vision that really matters. So, yeah, use free sources of artwork. Public domain artwork, you can find lots of different things like the Noun Project for icons and Pexels and Pixabay and so on. You know, do your Google searches, look for the different licenses of what you what's available for you to use and and so on. And then create the prototypes so that they don't have to look pretty, frankly.

16:15 They've just got to look, I suppose, visually appealing and with good information so that the publisher knows what you're getting at. And that's enough. But don't throw money down the drain, okay? There's not enough money in board games even if you manage to get a li- a licensing deal with a publisher, you're not going to make a huge amount of money from it, and you're certainly not going to make back any money that you've spent on artwork or components yourself.

16:39 Tip six, play test as little as possible. Your design is a delicate work of genius. You want as few eyes on this thing as possible. The more people who see it, the greater the risk that they're going to contaminate your pure artistic vision. If you receive any negative feedback, be sure to double down. If they're not enjoying the game, it's probably because they're not trying hard enough. Every game will find its audience, and you want to make sure that yours is as small as possible.

17:10 So, this comes back to the earlier point, really. If you don't play test your game, you're going going a a product which is not um that's got some rough edges, right? It may have some balance issues. It may have some unenjoyable moments. It may drag a little bit. Um it may have runaway leader problems or kingmaker problems or all sorts of things that maybe you haven't realized cuz you just haven't played it enough. It may have issues at different player counts and advantages for certain players and so on. You don't notice this stuff unless you've done lots and lots of tests. Um now, if you're crowdfunding your game, then people don't get to try it before they buy, so you may find you have a very successful Kickstarter anyway, that you manage to sell a lot of copies, but nobody is going to be recommending that game to anybody. You're not going to have ongoing sales and it's going to impact on your reputation moving forward.

18:06 Um so I think there is a potential to lose money by creating bad games. You might have an initial investment and initial amount of income, rather, from some big campaign, but then things are going to fall away afterwards when people realize that your game is actually a little bit half-baked. So, definitely playtest, playtest, playtest. I will give you the one caveat that I always like to make though, that time is money as well. If you're investing hundreds or thousands of hours in playtesting, you're not making that time back. One of the benefits of linking in with publishers and licensing your game to publishers is that they should be doing some playtesting themselves. They have their own uh networks of playtesters and really they're well placed to to to fine-tune some of those elements of your game. So, don't feel you need to get it to the point where it's perfect before you show it to a publisher, cuz a publisher can actually those those rough edges might be opportunities for the publisher to just shape it in the way that they want it to be.

19:08 But if you're going to be crowdfunding your game, then it does need to be perfect and that all falls down to you and the degree of playtesting that you've done.

19:16 Number seven. It's now time to invest in some sort of protection for your game. Cover all bases. Perhaps trademark the title, pursue a patent for a key component, and hire a lawyer. The more expensive, the more professional you'll feel. Because if there's one sure way to lose money making games, it is spending huge sums on easily bypassable protections.

19:38 So, I'm going to be in a uh future video. Maybe the next one, or within the next couple of videos, I'll be revisiting this topic around how do you protect your idea? And I'll go into it in some detail. But, the long and short of it is that spending money on trying to protect your idea is not going to achieve very much, and actually it's going to stand in your way of progressing because you know, if you're trying to get out of showing your game to people, you're doing everything you can to prevent other people getting eyes on your game in the worry that they might steal it, then you're doing the contrary to what we've just talked about. You're not playtesting it enough. You're not getting enough views on it. And actually, you're going to scare a lot of people off by giving them nondisclosure agreements and you know, and and and implying that they're going to they're going to steal things. Most of these things are very difficult to protect anyway. Copyright is it doesn't cover game mechanisms. It covers things like artwork and presentation, but as we've already said, your artwork isn't actually going to be used in the game anyway. So, really all you've got is your game mechanisms.

20:39 And it's very hard to protect those. So, you're going to have to trust people. You're going to have to communicate clearly, and you're going to have to be professional. But, spending money on all of this stuff is is I mean, you're just never going to make it back. One thing that I would suggest spending money on is joining an association, something like Tabletop Game Designers Association. TTGDA, is that the right initials? Or SAZ in Germany. These associations can look at uh contracts and the legal situation, and they can back you and support you when things go wrong if things ever go wrong and they can advise you about which publishers are a good to approach and which are struggling and and so on. So, they're definitely um good organizations to invest a little bit of money. Again, it's not a huge expense. It's an annual expense.

21:25 Um but that will probably give you as good I hesitate to say protection, but knowledge around protection as you're going to manage. Paying for patents is a non-starter. Paying for trademarks is a non-starter uh in this industry right now. So, yeah. Don't spend a lot of money on this stuff. It's a It's a waste. Eight. Send emails to half a dozen publishers. Just the most renowned publishers in the industry. And if they don't reply, make sure you follow up frequently, at least daily. It's important not to show weakness, so make sure to remind them again and again of how great your game is. How are they going to recognize your brilliance if you don't tell them? If they reject your game, don't take it personally. They probably failed to understand it. So, send a 12-page email explaining why they're wrong. If you want to lose money consistently and predictably in the long term, you're going to need to ensure that you're remembered for all the wrong reasons. And when none of the industry's leading publishers pick up your game, you'll probably just go with the first publisher that shows a bit of interest, isn't it? There's no need to check whether they've actually delivered a game before. If they say they can run a crowdfunding campaign, why doubt them?

22:34 They wouldn't say it if they were incompetent. Yeah, I'm not sure about that one. Maybe that one was a little um inconsistent with the theme. Okay, because actually, if you only approach half a dozen publishers, if you only approach the most, you know, successful publishers in the industry, then you're going to get nowhere. So, you're not going to lose an awful lot of money. Um and on the other hand, if you approach publishers who don't really know what they're doing, which I suppose is what I'm implying here, that you've got frustrated with approaching the biggest guys, so you go for the smallest guys, the ones that that haven't really proven themselves at all. What you're going to potentially lose there is um creative control, maybe a product's going to be released which is half-baked but makes very little. So, it's not so much about losing money, it's about losing potential income, isn't it? You know, you a game which could have been really good with the right publisher.

23:26 And often that isn't the big publisher. Um it often is with an up-and-coming publisher. But, you might miss that opportunity by handing off your prototype, your your product to somebody who really doesn't have distribution channels, doesn't have knowledge of crowdfunding, isn't able to develop your game. And so, when it comes out, it's pretty poor. Okay? And and it's your reputation. People are going to notice, you know, they notice your name on the box as much as the publisher's. Um and then the other part that I talked about in that clip is about, you know, ruining your reputation just by pressuring people and being unprofessional in your communications. That's going to impact on your future opportunities to sell games. So, yes, it might not directly lose you money now, but if you burn bridges with every publisher by piling on the pressure, constant emails, constant badgering, and and defending yourself, and arguing every rejection, you're never going to get anywhere in the future cuz they're not going to be willing to work with you or even meet with you to discuss future opportunities.

24:30 Number nine, don't give too much thought to your Kickstarter pricing. Manufacturing costs, shipping, VAT, exchange rates, ugh. That all sounds like a problem for future you. The world is unpredictable, right? Tariffs, international conflicts, global pandemics, what is the point in predicting the future? No, no, it is much better to pluck a figure out of the air. We're aiming for a decent loss per unit, so there's no need for contingencies. Let's price the game real low, bring in as many backers as possible, and maximize those losses. So this one is probably the greatest danger, the biggest way that people will genuinely lose money making games is by running a crowdfunding campaign. They price their game at a certain price, and they haven't taken into account the fact that the world can change, and the world will change. It changes all the time, okay? As we've seen over recent years.

25:23 It's very hard to predict how much manufacturing your game is ultimately going to cost because prices shift. The the the the cost of shipping and and and tariffs and taxes and and all the different contingencies, all the things that can go wrong. I'm no expert in this. I've never run a crowdfunding campaign, but I've seen other people do it and how frustrating it can be to see that your profit going down and down and down because of world events that are completely outside of your control. The figure that I've frequently seen bandied about, and as I say, I'm no expert, is to price your game at around five to six times the cost of the actual game itself, right? So the manufacturing cost of the game, what the manufacturer's going to charge you, you're lifting the price to the customer by about that amount to make up for all the other things that you're going to have to pay. Now, whether that five or six times is still a an advisable figure or whether it's gone up, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if it had gone up based on the things that have happened over recent years. So do your research, go and look at um where would I start? I guess I'm so naive with this. I've never done it, right? I guess the first thing I would do is go and reach out to people that I know who have done it, and thankfully I'm in a position where I do know quite a few people who have run crowdfunding campaigns. I'd certainly be looking at Jamey Stegmaier's stuff, right? Jamey Stegmaier's blogs and and videos. He's written so much about crowdfunding.

26:54 Whether he's still up-to-date, I don't know cuz he hasn't done it for a long, long time. Maybe he is. I trust that I trust that Jamey Stegmaier knows what he's doing. Okay, but um but I know he hasn't run a crowdfunding campaign for years and years. You're going to need to do a lot of research and really almost overestimate what that cost is going to be. And that means you're going to end up with a product that's relatively pricey for the customer, but you've got to make it appealing for them at that price so that you don't end up losing money. You You don't want to be running Kickstarter campaigns that, you know, break even or or where you're actually subsidizing the game. And you don't want to run them where you're making a tiny amount of profit, either, because the amount of time and effort that you're going to be putting into it, that is lost resources, too. Time is money, right? So, you want a decent return on your investment. Treat it as a business because that's what it is, right? Be responsible with it. You You're going into business as a publisher at that point. You're not just a designer. So, do the work and and hopefully you won't be hit by all of these potential losses. I think this is probably the biggest danger one in in this video. And sadly, [clears throat] it's the one where I can help you the least because it's not an experience that I've personally had.

28:10 10. If you build it, they will come. Marketing [snorts] is for inferior games. Really great games sell themselves. You don't look desperate by contacting reviewers or attending conventions or, you know, telling people about your game. Upload it to Kickstarter and wait for the internet to discover your masterpiece. The algorithms have got your back. The algorithms definitely don't have your back.

28:35 Running a YouTube channel, I know that more than anybody. The algorithms do not have your back. You're constantly trying to shift to the algorithms, right? To understand what the internet's putting forward and so on. It's so hard to predict what goes viral, what doesn't, and so on. Um so, yeah, don't trust the algorithms. You've got to make it known what you're doing and why people should care about it. Uh and that means building a a following, right? You don't launch a Kickstarter campaign unless you already have a following. How do you build that following? I don't know. Do whatever you need to do through social media, right? You need to build up you have followers, talk about your game, talk about the development of it for months before you launch that campaign. So, you've got a large number of people who are ready to back it on day one.

29:23 Um so, that Kickstarter notices, "Wow, we've had this hit of of people coming in on day one." And then hopefully, they're going to start to support it and and and lift you up, too. If you go into a Kickstarter campaign with no following, nobody cares, right? You've got no newsletters, no email subscribers, you know, how on earth is anyone going to find this thing? Um it it's just not going to happen. So, you've got to build a community around your game. You've got to build buzz and excitement for your game up front. How does this cost you money? Well, if you're using crowdfunding responsibly and as it's supposed to be, you know, then then you probably won't lose a huge amount. Although, that's not Actually, that's not true. You're going to lose all the money you have to invest in setting up a Kickstarter campaign, and that can cost you easily 10 or 20,000 lb or or euros just for creating the artwork for the game, creating the the review copies that you're going to send out, the prototype copies, um the the the the the video content that you're going to put on the on the channel, the playthroughs, and so on.

30:25 It's a big investment in in creating a professional-looking Kickstarter campaign, which is what people tend to expect these days. So, you're going to lose all of that money if the Kickstarter fails. I think one of the biggest risks, and this is one of the things that people have told me in the comments around this video and where I've seen it shared online and so on is people saying that people underestimate or overestimate the demand for their game and so they order a lot of copies from the manufacturer and then they end up with copies sitting in there in their garage. I think that's a difficult balance to find if you're if you're not running a crowdfunding campaign. If you're going to you know publish the game without that crowdfunding, how do you know how many copies to to order? And and you could get it wrong. You could order way too or you could order way too few and then miss the buzz and the hype going along. That's where crowdfunding can help you. Because it gives you a realistic idea of how many people care about this game. But only if you talk about it. Only if you make people aware of it before that campaign starts.

31:28 And congratulations, you're broke. Great Uncle Moneybags is proud of your progress. You truly are worthy of his inheritance. But your days of squandering money are over. It is time to turn your board game fortunes around. Okay, so I'll wrap it up there because I'm just going to go into a whole spiel about you know please have a look at my books and so on. And you should look at my books because they hopefully they're going to help you with some of this stuff. Particularly how I'm in the world of getting published.

31:54 But I hope that the content of that video makes a little bit more sense having broken it down in this way. I'm sure it's not rocket science. I'm sure you you could see through the sarcasm and see what the the the opposite version of this advice was. I don't think you have to be a genius to to to crack that code. But nonetheless, I hope there's some useful advice in there and I will see you on the next video. As I say, I've got a video coming up in the next the next couple of weeks around how to protect your idea, how to prevent people stealing it or you know what is appropriate, what is professional. So watch out for that one and I'll see you again soon. Until then, all the best.