The Dungeon Dive Vs. The Dice Tower

[music] Hey folks, welcome back to the dungeon dive. Daniel here. I hope you're doing well and if you're not, I hope you are soon. One of the things I look forward to most towards the beginning of every year is when the Dice Tower does their top 100 uh videos. I absolutely love those, especially the ones from who I consider to be kind of the core three, uh, Tom, Mike, and Z.

I absolutely love those guys. Um, I've been kind of participating in the Dice Towers reviews and videos for a really, really long time. I think I started listening to the podcast in about 2008. And some of my favorite podcasts ever are some of those golden era of the Dice Tower podcast with uh when uh Tom and Eric were the only two hosts.

I absolutely love those. Their weekly top 10s, always entertaining and interesting. And I just I just really love The Dice Tower. I think they are absolutely my favorite board game reviewers. Even though we often disagree, you know, they the the the folks at the Dice Tower, especially those core three, Tom, Mike, and Z, uh they are what I would call omniamers.

They play a little bit of everything. And uh they, you know, don't they don't focus on one type of game like I do. I'm kind of a mono gamer. I'm I'm very much a mono gamer in especially in the games I cover on the channel and in the games that I purchase. But I used to be more like the Dice Tower uh back in the day, back in the early 2000s.

I used to be more of an omniamer. And I used to try to play and buy and collect everything and you know, all kinds of different games. But I realized that I needed to focus if I wanted, you know, to do something like this. And so, you know, I've chosen to focus down a particular alley, a particular style of game, you know, dungeon crawls and adventure games and science fiction adventure games and fantasy and horror and that kind of thing.

But, um, I always learn so much from Dice Tower videos. I often hear people say on my channel that they don't watch, you know, people don't watch videos that they're about games that they're not interested in. And, uh, I'm kind of the complete opposite. I watch a ton of videos about games I'm not interested in just because I like learning about games and I learn so much from Tom Z and Mike just about games in general especially Tom.

Um I don't think there's anyone on the planet who knows more about board games than Tom and I think he's like logged in something like 10,000 different games played. Just an amazing that that dude is so nice, so cool. and he has such a grand encyclopedic knowledge uh about about the board game hobby and the history and just all of the different things that go into making up a great board game.

And I just I I really do appreciate all of the work that that that Tom does. You know, um when they had first started their doing their top 100s, I tended to have more in common with them because I played more games. But as the years go on and I'm playing fewer and fewer omni games, I'm playing fewer and fewer games outside of my little genre ghetto here, um, I have less and less in common with their top 100, but I still absolutely love watching it.

I love their banter. I love their discussions, and especially when they get a little heated, they're they're just always always fun. And so what I decided to do is kind of take a look at their top 100. have a um a few games, a one big disagreement, um a couple surprises, a couple games that I'd like to recommend.

I don't think they've reviewed. And then what I did is I made a top 10 list based on their all three of their top 100 lists, but I didn't include games that were already on my current top 10 list. So, if that makes sense. So, um, a few games that they had on their top 100s that are currently on my top 10, and that is Lands of Galzier, and both Mike and Z had that on their top 100 list.

And then there is Sleeping Gods, and all three of them had that on their top 100. And then Mike included Vantage on his top 100. And Vantage will definitely be appearing in my top my next top 10. I guess that's that's not on my current uh top 10 list, but spoiler alert for my top 10 list coming out later this year.

Uh Vantage will most definitely be making an appearance. Um a couple of big surprises that I had on their top 100 lists. Uh the complete lack of El Grande. I don't know why El Grande seems to be a forgotten game because to me that is still the most perfect board game ever made. It's the only board game that I would say is perfect.

It is such a remarkable design. So elegant. I mean, so many modern Euro games should reset and go back and learn from El Grande what El Grande did with such simple rules, such simple scoring. There's only one scoring track. You only score like three times in the whole game. So many modern big Euro games are so complex now.

They're way more complex and fiddly than any dungeon crawler or adventure game I play. I mean they have like 20 scoring tracks. You're moving pieces around like crazy. Um but El Grande. Yeah. I mean to me El Grande on an Omni gamer's list that has got to be in the top 10 or top five if not the just the number one.

God El Grande is so good. Um, a couple other surprises was how much Tom and Z like Massive Darkness 2. That really surprises me and they they still like it. It's still in their both of their top 100 lists. Um, you know, here I am a guy who focuses on dungeon crawls and focuses on adventure games. And I don't really like Massive Darkness 2 that much.

I prefer Massive Darkness one. And I think Massive of Darkness 2 added kind of, you know, too much complexity and it didn't offset that with the same amount of added fun. But I do want to revisit I do want to revisit Massive Darkness 2 and kind of approach it with a clean slate. I'm just waiting. Maybe I will get to that this year.

And one other thing that I really really love about Z's list is what a big champion he is for the others. I hardly ever hear anybody talk about the others. That was a a Seimon game. It's kind of a one versus many. I I personally don't play it because it's a one versus many style game and I just don't like those kinds of games.

But um it it's really cool that Z has that in his top 10. So that's really cool and it just doesn't really seem like it. Z always surprises me. I actually end up having more in common with Z's list than I do any of the others. um you know, he really loves some some of these kind of uh uh cool dungeon crawls and and adventure games.

And really the only thing that they said that I disagree with, and this is really kind of tongue and cheek, but um at one point they said something about Matt Lecock being the king of the co-op. And yeah, no, Richard Liius is the king of the co-op. I mean, Arkham Horror, the first edition, that pretty much set the table for all co-op games and how they and how they play.

I know Matt Leok made it like super popular with Pandemic, but in my opinion, Pandemic was just kind of boring Arkham Horror, Arkham Horror without cool stuff and without cool things to do. I think uh I would say that Matt Lecock is the prince of uh the co-op genre. While while Richard Lanius is still making games, he is still the supreme king of the co-op.

And I do have a couple games that I would like to see them review because I think they would really like these. And I I I looked and I couldn't find reviews for these. I know they did an unboxing for one and that is Forgotten Depths. I think I think Z and Mike might really love Forgotten Depths. I could actually see that cracking into their top 100 because that game is a marvelously designed game.

Just what a fantastic game Forgotten Depths is and I think they would really enjoy it if they give it the time. And another game that I I don't think would ever crack their top 100, but I think they would still enjoy is Stellagbite. I think Stellagbite has a lot going for it. So, uh, let's do, uh, the top 10.

So, I made a top 10 based off of the games in Mike, Z, and Tom's top 100, and I excluded games that are either on or going to be on my top 10 list later this year. So, starting coming in at number 10, and this was on Z's list, and that is Jamaica. Uh Jamaica is just a great kind of family weight game where uh the players are competing in these boats to race around an island.

And it's just it's really fun. It's simple. It's fun. It's fast. Um whenever I play it with, you know, my wife and a couple of our friends will play it, we always have a great time. It's super easy to teach and it's just a lot of fun. Uh coming in at number nine, this was also on Z's list and that is Aonzen: The New Age.

So, I really liked Aonzen for about two weeks, and that sounds like a kind of a backhanded compliment, but I played the crap out of it. I played through the entire box. I bought some expansions and played through both of those. I had some friends over. We played through a bunch of the bosses. And, you know, once I saw everything, it wasn't a game that I wanted to return to, so I actually ended up giving it away to some friends.

But, uh, that game is really fun. It's super cool. I wish there was a little bit more of a kind of adventure element to it that might make me stick around with it for a little bit, but just that kind of deck building where you are building up kind of a spell book of these powerful spells and fighting cool bosses really a lot of fun.

Aons and the new age. Uh coming in at number eight, another game that was only on Z's list and that is Vagrant Song. Now Vagrant Song is a game that I could see moving up in my ranking if I just need to take the time to play it more. really interesting game where you are kind of like these Ghostbusters in this oldtimey cartoon world on this haunted train.

Has a lot of really neat scenarios, cool powers, a pretty simple campaign system. It's a boss battler, but just a really nice vibe and actually kind of creepy. That game gets a little bit creepy and uh yeah, it's cool and it's a nice small box or mediumsiz box, you know, it's not this like giant coffin box like Kingdom Death Monster is for a boss battler.

So, that is number eight, Vagrant Song. Uh, number seven, this was on Tom's list, and this is another one that I could see going up in my rankings. I need to play it more and I really want to play a lot of it this year. And that is Tales from the Red Dragon in. Super super fun game. Just kind of a game of pure joy.

It's relatively simple, even though it's a big box and it has a ton of chits. Oh my god, so many chits. But, uh, you know, building out your character with the different powers in the decks. I love those big foldout maps so you don't have to set up tiles and a really cool little narrative skirmish game.

Um, I think I'm kind of getting more into those narrative skirmish games, especially with how much I like Warhammer Quest Dark Water. But, uh, number seven, Tales from the Red Dragon in. Super super fun. Uh, coming in at number six is a game that was on Tom and Z's list and that is Dice Town. Now, Dicetown is a game that I've not played in many, many years.

But this was back in the day when I was more of an omniamer. And Dice Town was a game that me and my friends uh turned to quite often, and that is a dice rolling poker kind of worker placement game where you are building poker hands to trigger powers on a board. Very fun, very simple, almost a party game, but it has some great art and it's just fun.

Dice Town is just a super super fun game and it was one of the games that I kind of got into during those early years of my omni gaming phase. So number six is Dice Town. Another game from that kind of same era that we used to play all the time in the pub. One of our favorite games to play in the pub and that is Citadels.

And this was on Z's list. Uh just a really mean kind of brutal competitive game with uh different hidden kind of various powers that you uh pass out. Super super fun. I think as far as that kind of game, I always preferred Shadow Hunters just because it was a little more thematic. Like Shadow Hunters was a game that we also played a lot.

Man, the god I wish I still had my copy of that game. Holy crap, is that thing expensive now. But, uh, Citadels was a game that we played a lot. And, um, yeah, it's it's just fun. It's just a fun game. Um, you know, of course, it has that history of on the Dice Tower of of Eric yelling Citadels, and that'll always be funny to me at least.

Uh, coming in at number four is another game that I used to play a lot when I played more competitive games, and that is Cichlades or Cichlides, and this was on Mike and Tom's list. I think they have that new legendary edition on their list. I've only played the older one and this is kind of a kind of a newer style risk area control dudes on a map game.

But what I really like about cichlides or cichladies is um how quick the confrontation comes because a lot of times in a games like Risk or these kind of big uh dudes on a map games, the players will turtle up a little bit and people are afraid to make that first attack. Especially if you're not super competitive, you might feel a little bit bad about who to choose to attack first.

Well, this game gets rid of all of that because on the very first turn, you are involved in conflict and conflict is inevitable. You can't turtle at all in cichlides and that's just awesome. And this having that kind of Greek mythology background, but just a fantastic game. It had some cool expansions and we used to play that game at the pub a lot.

And so that's number four. Uh coming in at number three is a game that uh kind of similar uh game that forces direct conflict. I mean direct conflict and I guess some negotiation is the name of the game. It's almost a social game, but it has some, you know, pretty hard rules or strict rules. And that is of course Tom's a number one game.

It's been his number one for a long time. I think it fell off number one for a while, but it's back. And that is Cosmic Encounter. Uh man, Cosmic Encounter is just so so much fun. I kind of miss playing that. I don't have it anymore. I used to have the Fantasy Flight version with all the with I don't think I had all the expansions, but a lot.

But that's another game that we used to play with our game group a lot. And just it always ends up just being so much fun. Um especially if you're playing with people who don't take things personally. Um it can be, you know, if you're playing with somebody who is super ultra competitive and maybe they take uh some things a little personally.

I can see that game going poorly. But if you're playing with the right crowd, um, Cosmic Encounter is just a lot of fun. Number two, this is a game that I wish had some kind of more true co-op or solo mode because I think it would be a game still in my collection. And uh, that is uh, from Z's list and that is Fury of Dracula, especially that Fantasy Flight version.

What a gorgeous, gorgeous game. I mean, that game is just dripping with theme. I I absolutely love all of the cool stuff, all of the art. I love that idea. I'm not too into like hidden movement games. I think they break very easily because if the person or people who are supposed to be doing the hidden movement, if they make a mistake, it can really throw the game off.

Uh, Fury of Dracula. Dracula is a super long game, but when you're playing as the vampire hunters, man, is it ever tense. I think playing as the hunters is more fun because it's more tense, but playing as Dracula is also fun because you get to sneak around and set traps and stuff. But, uh, yeah, my my buddies and I, we used to play Fury of Dracula quite often.

And, you know, it's like a three and a half hour game sometimes, so it can be really long. But man, when you set that game up on the table, it just looks amazing and just that that feeling of of of Dracula comes through in that game. So, that's my number two from their list is Fury of Dracula. And my number one is on Z and Mike's list.

And I'm surprised how much they both absolutely love this game because it doesn't really seem like a game that I would think of when I think of Z and especially Mike. But that is a Cthulhu Death May Die. Um, yeah, that was that's a big surprise to me. I could have included that on the big surprise list, but uh yeah, Cthulu Death May Die is great.

That's another one that I could see moving up in my ranks if I just took the time to play it more. And I need to do that. I did recently buy the season 4 expansion. And I am actually currently in the process of scanning the images from the cards in that game to make tokens because I absolutely hate the miniatures in that game.

They are way too big. Just ridiculous. They take up way too much real estate on the table and also in the boxes to store them because without the minis, I could think I can get everything that I have for the game in a single box. And so, I'm I'm going to start working on that so I can start playing the game more because that's one of the things that keeps me from playing the game more is just the ridiculous size of the minis and and I just don't like them.

And so if I can make tokens, I think I'll play the game a lot more and it'll also free up some space on my shelf. But Cthulhu Death May Die is just such a fun game. I love the modular way you build the scenarios with the great old one and then the the two little packs of cards that you mix together.

It's just that's super super cool. There's so much variety and it sets up pretty quickly and puts away pretty quickly. Uh, the games can go on. I I feel like the the the end game of Cthulhu Death May Die kind of suffers in the same way that the endgame of Arkham Horror Second Edition does in that final confrontation just never feels as epic or as cool as I would want it to feel.

And like the first three quarters of both of those games I think are way better than the last quarter, but it's still a really really cool uh pulp Cthulhu game. So yeah. So, that's my number uh my top 10 based off of the Dice Towers top 100 list excluding the games that are already on my top 10. Jamaica, Aons in the New Age, Vagrant Song, Tales from the Red Dragon in Dice Town, Citadels, Cichlides, Cosmic Encounter, Fury of Dracula, and Cthulhu: Death May Die.

And hey, from the Dungeon Dive, you know, I I probably would not be doing this channel if it wasn't for Tom Vassel. um he kind of inspired me to do this, you know. Um and I just wanted to say uh thank you from the dungeon dive to the dice tower for just all of the awesome things that you guys have done for this hobby.

All of the many, many hours of awesome entertainment you have given me. when I'm sick or when I just want to be lazy, I can just throw on some Dice Tower top 10 lists or a random assortment of their videos, their their um their uh reviews and overviews and uh just have fun and on top of that learn a lot because I love learning about board games.

So, all right. Well, hope you guys enjoyed this video a little different. We'll talk to you later. Take it easy. Bye-bye.