Top 10 Long Games

0:05 How long is THIS GOING TO TAKE? HEY EVERYONE, I'M THE BROKEN MEEPLE. WIN OR LOSE, I'm going to be on this with you. And today's another top 10 list. We're going basically through a few of the ones that I did ages ago and decided they needed an update after about 5, 6, 7 years as they were old. And I gave the patrons a chance to vote on which ones they thought would be the the best ones to go for. So, we've already done one. The low complexity high depth games was definitely the bigger hit out of all of them. But surprisingly, the next biggest one on the list was this one.

0:52 Top 10 long games. I was not expecting that. But maybe it's got something to do with my way I deal with games. Because if you've watched my videos and know what I do with games, you'll know that I have a bit of a a tendency towards games that are not crazy short. I mean, I'll happily play a game that's 2 to 2 and 1/2 hours without too much trouble. But I do make a lot of comments about a game being too long for what it is. You know, you're playing this game and you feel like come on, can we wrap this up? Or games that require you to spend good 3 and 1/2, 4, 4 and 1/2 hours of investment. And I don't feel that you get the necessary like fun factor to warrant that time. You know, some games are crazy long and they need to be crazy long. And you get that fun factor for the time length you're playing it for.

1:37 And that's kind of what this list is going on about. This is not just simply my 10 favorite games that just happen to be long. And when I say long, well, we'll get onto that in a minute. You know, this is more a case of right, here are 10 games I really like. But knowing that they are long, am I still getting enough enjoyment out of them being long? Or is it only because I love the game so much that I'm actually justifying it. You know, are there some games here which I wouldn't necessarily rank higher than others on gameplay alone. But given how long they are, I feel like yeah, you know what? I'm invested for that time and it warrants the time length that I mean, it's going to be subjective here and there. And going back to the previous comment about like, oh, it's you know, how long is long? Well, for me, long is 3 hours plus. You know, 2 and 1/2 hours is you know, top end for what most meaty games should really be. If it starts going 3 hours plus, it's a bit of a problem. And most of the stuff on this list are games where you could feasibly spend a good 3 plus hours playing it. Not always. You know, you are going to have to accept that this is based on having like a full count of players here. You know, if you play these games solo, none of them should take you 3 hours with maybe one or two exceptions. You know, if you're playing this with a two player setup, then chances are it's not going to take you 3 hours. Again, one or two exceptions. It varies from moment to moment.

2:57 And I'm not going to get caught into this like crazy nonsense of trying to debate whether a game takes 3 hours plus or only takes 2 hours. Cuz you're going to get these fanboys of the game, you know, if you criticize anything to say, well, I can play this game in 90 minutes with my three friends. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, great. You can play the game like a robot and not engage in any kind of social interaction whatsoever. Fine. You're an automaton. Be proud of it. Are you prepared for the kind of death you've earned, little man? But you know, most of us will take the longer route, okay? You know, accept that your situation is entirely niche and your situation. And this is probably a bit more broad, okay? Or a bit more widely accepted. You know, certainly some of you are going to disagree on the length on some of these games. But for the most part, I see these games and experience these games going on that long. All right? So, we'll we'll gloss over that bit. And certainly would I don't play a lot of games that take 6 hours, 8 hours, 20 hours, whatever. You know, there's one or two that do take a decent amount of time on this list. But you know, I don't play a lot of those like whole day games. So, yeah, sorry for those of you wondering. No, Twilight Imperium is not going to feature on the list. And nor is Europa Universalis. You know, nor is Mega Save. Mega Save is garbage anyway.

4:16 You know, none of the games on this list are ones that take 6 hours plus, okay? You know, that kind of thing. Those are an entirely different regime of long games. And frankly, they take too long for my enjoyment. You know, none of those games I've enjoyed enough to warrant that kind of time length. So, you know, different strokes for different folks. Let's crack on and see how we go. I hope they remember you.

4:47 Hopefully this guy's going to sit on my shoulder all the way. You might notice it's one of the plushy like it's a plushy of the one of the creatures that are wondrous creatures. Yeah, you know, they gave it to me as a little gift last Essen. So, it's all quite nice. Um but this one is a game where you know, some of these games I had a big short list of games that I play that are quite long. You know, I do actually enjoy a lot of these long meaty games. But you know, it really does depend on the game and I'm certainly a lot more picky with them. You know, I'll be a lot more critical. But if the game doesn't feel like I'm playing it for that long. Or if I feel like I'm involved or thinking about the next few turns, I don't mind it as much. So, on that front, this one I'm surprised to hit my number 10 is Great Western Trail the New Zealand version. I won't play the other versions for 3 hours plus. But New Zealand can take around the 3 hour mark. I mean, it shouldn't take any longer than that. But it does take about that 3 hour mark.

5:38 Particularly when you go to include the insane setup time for this one. It is a bit of a chore, especially solo. But with Great Western Trail New Zealand, it's it's kind of odd because there's a lot of stuff I can think about before my next turn. I've got my new hand of cards and I have this ready before my turn is going to start. So, I can think about it ahead of time. And on top of that, you do have a decent amount of rewarding stuff you can do on your turn. You move to a location, do what it says. You could play these bonus cards that get you other things. You know, you might be doing a sale at Washington or whatever it is. Or Wellington or Wellington, I think in the New Zealand version. So, you know, so you you do have this these other aspects. And you know, while other players are taking their turns, they are influencing the board state. They're sticking locations on that like tax you. Sticking those the those stupid little hazard things in your way. Nicking things that you might have wanted.

6:27 Influencing the sheep market. There's a few bits and bobs that do like depend on the other players being there. And yes, a solo player a solo game does you know, replicate this quite nicely. Hence it's pretty decent solo mode actually. But when I play this, I don't necessarily feel like I'm playing it for the full 3 hours. The time seems to flow by quite nicely. And I do at least care about what the others are doing. I'm not sat in a position where I could be you know, dilly-dallying on my phone doing something else. You know, like some of these other bigger games can be. This one I just feel like you know, it isn't it's not necessarily like do I wish it was a 2 hour max time limit? Yes. But the fact that it goes on longer doesn't seem to bug me as much with this one. And it's quite surprising cuz after all the hate I gave the first edition of Great Western Trail, the fact that the second edition could bring out this New Zealand version which just seems to pop for me, you know, solid. Yeah, decent one. So, it can go on pretty long. But I don't seem to mind it with this one.

7:23 Sometimes I don't believe I know you. Hopefully you can't hear the annoying kids outside. But this is what happens when you live on an estate and it's sunny. Um I'll send Fizzgig to deal with them later.

7:41 [screaming and groaning]

7:43 But my number nine, you might cry foul because it is my favorite game of all time. But honestly, I do feel like I do have to care a little bit what the other players are doing. And this one is the game play is just that solid. Like this the game play is just so much fun that for me that I don't mind this one taking a while because I like doing what I'm doing. Cuz I can plan three or four turns ahead thinking all right, I better do this and then I'll do this and I'll do this. Now, somebody might influence my decision there. But for the most part, I can sort of think quite a long way ahead as to what turns I want to do. It's Ark Nova. Now, you might think, well, why the hell is this not my number one? Remember, I'm not ranking this based on which ones do I enjoy the most? Because then you might as well just look at my top 50 and just count them from there. Here I am thinking about whether I care too much about it being long. And with this one, it's only particularly long when four players. When you play this with three players, it's not so bad. And I tend to play this quite a lot you know, on the Steam app or on BGA and stuff. But we're ignoring stuff like that because obviously time length is completely different when you try those out. But even when this game goes on long, I think I just like the game play so much that it doesn't bug me that it's going on for a while. Certainly I will be sort of ushering on a few people if they're APing too much. But you know, if you are digging your turns and planning ahead of time, then the game should go at decent pace throughout those 2 and 1/2 to 3 hours that you're playing it for. And if it goes onto like 4 hours plus, then it's a learning game or somebody's really taking their time. But you know, this can go on to about 3 hours. Do I wish it didn't? Yes.

9:13 Although to be honest, they tried to make it shorter with Sanctuary. Check out my review as to why that one was only barely average in terms of its rating. But um you know, I I just love the game play in this one so much. You know, I love the type writer mechanic, the animals, the theme that gets me into it. Looking at what other people are doing with their zoos. And I do have to pay some attention to the other players. You know, we are racing for those little objectives, the green objectives there. So, you do need to pay attention to what they're doing. You are looking at what type of animals they're focused on. Influencing what you kill from the display or what you're willing to you know, look for. You you are definitely thinking like when's the when are they likely to win the game? When are they going to grab bonuses and that. So, there are aspects at the coffee break. Another great example, you know, when's that coffee break going to trigger? Well, you're not the only person who has influence over it, so they do. So, there are little bits here and there that do take this out of being just a complete solitaire game, but I'm placing it lower on the list because I'm going to admit this is definitely at the lower end for right, this game is going on for a long time. I don't mind it because I love the gameplay so much, but I think it's coasting a little bit on that. So, I think to rank this any higher might be a little bit unfair, but it's definitely as I one of my It is my favorite game currently that I play. I played this loads. I don't mind bringing it out with three players to play a long game of it because I'm enjoying myself. Do I wish it could be shorter? Yes. Do I want my lion that I kept in my enclosure to maul the person next to me who's APing like crazy? Yes, but that's just the way it

10:43 is. You know, I do really enjoy this one, but yeah, I'm capping it at nine. So, bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for him. Number eight is the only Lacerda game on the list. I I have tried to keep it so that I don't have I mean, two from the same publisher is fine, but two like same designer and all that kind of thing, probably not so much. I think this is the only example where I would have that issue though, which is the tile of Lacerda. Yes, I've been giving them a bit of crap lately with the you know, my less than stellar impressions of Speakeasy recently, which was an interesting you know, feedback to get for that one. But also that with the machine was average and inventions bored me to hell, you know. So, certainly his new stuff is not working for me. You're going to burn in a very special level of hell. But his old stuff is where he shines and you know, in this case I had to decide between two and it was either Kanban or Gallerist. I'm giving the edge to Kanban on this occasion. The reason that Gallerist was an honorable mention because the Gallerist has a mechanic where you have influence built up and if you have enough influence when somebody kicks your worker off, you could potentially take your turn like an extra turn, shall we say, by spending influence. That's all well and good and it keeps you involved. The only downside of that is that it's a bit of a catch-22 situation or double-edged sword, I'm not sure which of the two, but it's the fact that yes, if you're in that situation, you get to do something before it's your turn again. If you're not in that situation, you're sat there waiting a bloody long time before it's your turn

12:13 again. So, it is a little bit of a problem at times as well as being good at times. Kanban I give the edge to because this one does take a while. You are playing this for a good old three hours to play this, although it can go shorter sometimes, but this one is a very It's strategic and tactical in a very nice blend. I mean, I think one thing that certainly does make me enjoy a long game more is the theme. So, the nature theme of Ark Nova helps, you know, the sheep theme of New Zealand is nice. I like sheep, I like animals, so you know, that theme works for me there as well, but here you've got the theme of being the workers in the car factory and putting the cars together, blueprints, parts and all that, dodging your annoying boys boys. Probably because I watched The Boys the other day. Um boss Sandra and dealing with her ramifications and trying to outstudy your opponent so that you don't get looked at, they do. So, there's a lot of tactical aspects to this game which really do work for me and it keeps me involved, it keeps me engrossed and I think that's one thing a long game really needs to do. If a long game does not have a theme, if there's not an interesting theme to draw me in, then I don't care. You know, I obviously you're not going to see Civilution on this list, you know, the one that's uh you know, touting the praises by a bunch of people, but the theme in that is barely there and it's four hours of you know, a dice fest.

13:37 You know, so suffice to say, a decent theme is going to be needed. This one has that theme and I'm very interested in what the other players are doing because I you know, we got to time when you put your worker out based on the order of play and that matters like so critical in this game. So, you want to know where your other players are going. You want to think right, well, I'm looking at you, you right, you think I reckon you're going to get some parts cuz you're low on parts and you need to do stuff, so I reckon you're going to go to the warehouse. If you go there, then that means Sandra's going to skip that location and come to me over in design. Ah, maybe I should go up top next, but then I got to think about the turn after because then I'm last to pick, which means I reckon he's going to go up to the top in R&D, which is where I want to go next. And you know, you have a lot to plan for. Even though there is a tactical nature where you have to react to what other players are doing, I don't feel like there's time in Kanban for you to just sit there and sort of you know, you know, dilly-dally doing nothing.

14:28 You've got to keep an eye on everything and so the time kind of flies by in this one. You know, helped by the banter with the great theme, helped by how great the thing looks, you know, it's one of his best looking games, I believe and you know, just the fact that the the you know, the interaction with the players is fairly frequent, you know, not constant, but pretty frequent that it keeps you engrossed for that time limit. The Gallerist does have the problem where other than the artist sort of leveling up and maybe the international market, the other two actions don't really you don't really care too much about those from a multiplayer perspective and even then, as I said, the the problem with that mechanic of the influence is that you could be sat at the uh the rear end of that waiting forever for your turn to take place, by which point too much has happened. So, it That's why Kanban gets the edge, you know, it's definitely ooh, a toss-up between the two and I'd be interested to know if you believe the other one should have got it, but you know, Kanban is easily his best game, so I'm glad I can stick this on the list.

15:34 Number seven, we are venturing into an IP now. We're going to venture into a very popular IP. This game does take a while to finish. I mean, if you play it solo, it's going to take a fair while to finish anyway, but if you play this with multiplayer, three or four players, you're going to be here for the long haul, but the IP is interesting. The IP is a you know, a famous one. It is one that keeps you engrossed. The game tells a story for everybody playing. You occasionally will interact with each other, though not too much, but the theme and what's happening in the game is enough to keep me engrossed and that is Star Wars: Outer Rim. Outer Rim, you can't see it on the camera, but it's over there in the corner. It's the far left for me, the Fantasy Flight section and you know, conveniently uh well, we'll get on to that later, but you know, Star Wars: Outer Rim, yes, it's long. You're going to be playing this for a good two and a half, three hours plus, you know, three hours plus easily when you play this with four players, but you know, it's Star Wars.

16:32 You're already invested in it because well, hopefully you're playing this game because you like Star Wars, so that kind of helps. But you know, the bounty hunters that you pick, you know, you get into the characters, you almost sort of role play a little bit. You're doing different missions, you're telling the the story of your bounty hunter, which might intersect with others, people messing around with the patrols or like you know, the other NPC factions and stuff could be a factor. Hell, somebody takes the you know, person on their crew, it's like, ah, you got two backer on your crew. Well, sucks for you, I got a bounty on his head, so give me, give me, give me, you know, it's I'm coming for you. It's you get those sort of aspects now and again and it it keeps it entertaining for the length that it is. But again, I think the theme helps. If this was just a generic like what was it called? Merchants of Venus or something like you know, if it was just a generic space theme, probably wouldn't keep me involved as much, you know.

17:22 Empires of the Void I almost considered for the list, but that one doesn't take three hours plus or at least it shouldn't even with four, five players. You should be done in less time. But it is its own space theme. If that one took three to three and a half hours every game, it would be a little less enjoyable for me, but this one being Star Wars, being the bounty hunters, it leads to some cool moments, it leads to some good little story moments and the expansion is definitely required to up this one because you do have those ambition sheets, the ones that give you a set goal for the game, so you're telling a bigger story than you otherwise would in a big space epic game. I mean, what you know, what story do you tell in Eclipse for crying out loud, you know, that piece of garbage. So, uh this one definitely can go on a bit long. Do I wish it was shorter? Yes, you know, it could stand to be shorter and even the solo game is not going to be one that you finish in too short a time frame, but it's you know, for what it is, for what how long the solo game should take, but it's Star Wars and it's bounty hunters.

18:21 You're basically telling your own story of you know, those those animated Star Wars shows like The Mandalorian and well, Book of Boba Fett was pretty bad, but you know, you can tell your own version of that story as such and speaking of which, check out the recent Maul, it's actually pretty cool. But yeah, you know, it's it's a good element it's a it's an area of Star Wars that doesn't get touched upon a lot and playing the game, you tell these little mini stories and it keeps you invested. No disintegration. As you wish. Ah, shock.

18:57 Number six, the reason I didn't want to you know, talk too much about that is cuz I didn't want to spoil any other potential games on the list because my number six is conveniently the same IP. It's still Star Wars. And this one takes the slight edge over Star Wars: Outer Rim because this one you are definitely more involved throughout the game mechanically, not just thematically, but mechanically because there's only two of you playing. Yep, you can only have two of you playing. This one doesn't hit the table very often at all. I mean, it barely might even hit the table once every couple of years. It really is hard to get this one out. But you can't deny that for a long game, Star Wars: Rebellion really does give you a decent amount for your play time. I mean, you are invested in this big, ever-growing like epic arc of you know, all these like the different characters from the movies coming together like I'll go capture Leia and I'll going to her out, I can steal her in carbonite, instead of Han Solo, you know? Luke Skywalker, ah, he's on the planet Well, we got Yeah, dead. No problem, he died, he got squished by an AT-AT, it's fine. You you tell a lot of these cool stories with those cards, and again, this one does need the expansion to really shine. I forget what it was called.

20:08 Something Edge of the Empire, or something like that, I don't know. It introduced more characters, but it revamped the combat system, which really needed to happen. But, with that thrown in, it's a two-player game, so even when it's not your turn, you want to know what the opponent's doing, because you're trying to If you're the Empire, you're trying to figure out where the hell they are, based on everything your opponent does. And if you're the like, you know, if you're playing as the Rebel player, then you need to take note of where the Empire is doing, you know, where they're looking, because obviously you're trying to do hit-and-run strategies on them, because you don't have as much stuff, but also you're trying to hide your base, so you can't make it obvious where it is. So, if they start going near your base, you might want to try and veer them off elsewhere. There's a lot of getting in your opponent's head, but there's also a lot going on that keeps you engaged. And two players, you know, the game goes on for quite a while. It doesn't take too long before it's your turn, and you're doing quite a bit on your turn. But even when the opponent's doing stuff, chances are it's getting you involved as well, cuz you might have to react to a combat, or the card that's being played, you know, the stuff. So, you don't really get a lot of time to just sit there twiddling your thumbs and do something else. Yeah, you got to be concentrating on the game, and this is one reason it kind of gets the edge over uh Star Wars Outer Rim in my case, over how long it is. It's Star Wars, it's wonderfully thematic, it's a great mechanical game. It doesn't hit the table anywhere near as often as I would like. I mean, who loves board games and meaty games and adores Star Wars, then I'm in freaking heaven at that point, cuz that would be amazing.

21:37 But, you know, we'd be able to play it a damn sight more often. But, it's still on my shelf, despite the fact that it doesn't get played that often, because of how great it is when you do get it played. Most of these I would have sold by now, you know, or only kept because they were expensive Kickstarters or something, you know, Zyer, Legends of the Drizzt system is probably a great example. Not on my list, it's way too long for what it is. Um you know, I only play that game solo, and even then it takes forever. So, it's it's, you know, some of these games have already long gone, but this one sticks to the sticks around because it is just that good for a long game. That's not how the Force works.

22:22 Number five, we are venturing into co-op territory now, because what's one of the best ways to make a long game not feel like a long game? Co-op, because you're involved a lot. Co-op, you're working with other players. You are constantly bantering with each other, you're making decisions, you're talking as a group. So, naturally that keeps you engaged. Although, some co-ops can go on too long for what they are, and feel like, okay, yeah, this co-op probably should have ended a bit of a while ago. But, this one has the story element to go with it. Now, there is a caveat with this one. This one is Mansions of Madness Second Edition, and the caveat is that it does depend on what scenarios you're playing. You could play a scenario that only takes about 60 minutes, 90 minutes tops. You know, there are short scenarios in the game. But, a lot of scenarios that came out as DLCs, particularly the and last couple in the base set, quite a few of the DLC ones, and uh you know, uh yeah, the DLC online ones, and also some of the ones in the expansions, did cross that mark of being quite long. I mean, there are scenarios that can take you a good 4 hours plus to finish. A lot of the expansion scenarios can still take you a good 3 hours plus. You know, this is not a short game by any means. You're engaged with the story, you're doing the little puzzles, you're bantering with each other about what's happening, you're discussing the best course of action, you know, you're reading out the blurbs and stuff. So, and you've got combats to deal with, which might take several turns. So, there's definitely plenty enough going on to keep you invested. But, a lot of it is just because of the sheer immersion that the game has. You know,

23:53 you've got the app, and you've got all the stuff going on on the board, you've got the story, the music, the way it talks you through the different combats and stuff. I mean, it is the most immersive experience you will have with an Arkham Horror-related IP, outside of possibly doing the Call of Cthulhu role-play game, which I have still not had a chance to try. I seriously need to get into a one one-shot Call of Cthulhu game, because I've still never played it. But, um and I would like to. Uh never really got to get into the Call of Cthulhu card game, either, the LCG. Hm, but I mean, I heard that I mean, I heard it was decent, but it went out of print long before I had a chance to really go into it, so not something I'll ever play, I don't think. But, you know, you know, this one is definitely for immersion's sake, this is the the experience. And to be honest, I think this one is the only Arkham Horror game on the list. Yes, indeed, this is the only one, because, you know, the what other ones are there? You know, you've got the LCG, can certainly take a long time when you play it with a lot of players.

24:53 Probably a bit too long now when you play it with a lot of players. You play this four players, a scenario that should only take you about 90 minutes, suddenly takes you 3 hours plus. And then, what other ones you got? You got the Arkham Horror Third Edition, and you know, Eldritch Horror and stuff like that. They take a long time for what they are, they could be shorter, you know. I imagine the Mansions just does a better job of immersing you in the scenario, while also being long. So, yeah, it's got that It's why that one has to hit the list. So, really great. We're talking the long scenarios here, but frankly, there's plenty of them. And I'm the bad guy?

25:31 My number four, you probably are going to be shocked by this one, because I pretty much have never spoken about this one before. It's Well, I have, but just very rarely. It's either not the right criteria, or it's just not in my top 50. It probably hits my top 100, barely. I mean, it's not like one that I rate as highly as a lot of other games, even though it's still easily, I think, an an eight out of 10 for me, possibly a nine out of 10, depending on the circumstances. But, it is quite a niche game. Because this one, you need to have a good 3 plus hours spare, 3 to 4 hours. You need to be into negotiation games, which a lot of people are not. I am, but a lot of people aren't. And you also need to be into the Netrunner universe, ideally. This is New Angeles, from Fantasy Flight. I don't think you can get this game anymore, at least it's not in print. I don't think any of us expected him to say that. Maybe you might get lucky and spot it on a bring and buy, so if you're into this sort of genre, then by all means, grab it. It's a seriously underrated game. This one is a game that you want to play with the max player count, ideally, at bare minimum five. But, if you can get six players, fantastic. It's going to take you 3 to 4 hours to play this, easily.

26:35 But, you're involved in every step of the game, because you've got the cityscape, where all of you play one of the Netrunner corporations, Jinteki, and the various other ones, I forget, or Haas-Bioroid. I forget all their names, it's been ages since I played the LCG. But, the idea is is that with this one, you play one of those corporations, and each one has a different little quirk that they can do to help the city like thrive. And each of you wants the city to thrive, because if it goes to pot, then bad things happen. The government steps in and goes, "Right, you corporations have had too much power, we're stepping in." But, one of you, potentially in a six-player game, wants to have the city tank. You've got the Federalist. So, you've got a hidden traitor in a six-player negotiation game, but even though all the players are trying to stop the city from tanking but one, you're still corporations, you're still greedy CEOs. You want the most money to win the game. You can trust me with your entertainment. So, you have a secret rival that you're trying to have more money like capital for them than them by the end of the game. So, you not only do you have to have the city survive, but you also need to be better than that rival. And you can have shared victories, because some people will obviously, you know, do that, and some people won't. But, man, you're involved, because every turn you are it like negotiating for the use of these particular assets, and the use of like like the powers of the various corporations. So, it's like, "Right, look Look, we need to get the police guys in there, because we need to stick some enforcers down, because crime rate's going over the going up up the

28:05 scale. Okay, cool. Yes, but we also have some outages everywhere, and that's going to cause some problems, so maybe I should turn the lights back on." Well, yeah, that's true, but you know, there's sickness going around here, and me as Jinteki would like to heal the wounded, because if they don't, we're just going to have a massive plague. All of which are legit points, but everybody's greedy, because everybody's got their own agenda. And you're you're negotiating over these asset cards, which are very powerful cards, very useful, and everybody wants a piece of them. Not everybody's going to be saying, "Yeah, you know what, you can have it, because I'm feeling generous." No, I'm a greedy CEO. And if we know one thing about American CEOs, they're greedy as hell. There is no nice CEO, okay? I mean, just look at the video game industry, and hell, the movie industry. But, you know, it's just one of those cool things that you're always involved throughout this game. 3 to 4 hours, doesn't matter, you're always in each other's at each other's throats, you know, in a good a good way. But, it's negotiation, it's Netrunner, it's it carries that theme really well, so you're immersed, and you know, by the end, it's so rewarding, particularly if like me as the Federalist, at the very last minute, pull a fast one and go, "Yep, yep, you voted for me to take control of the situation. It's all good."

29:19 Sucks to be you guys. Oh boy, that feels so good. But, yeah, it's an underrated negotiation game. It just didn't get advertised very well. It was Netrunner, so I think it was a niche market it was appealing to. Long negotiation games are not that, you know, well sought after by gamers, you know, I love them, but you know, I get that it's a niche area. So, it's one that's going to stay in my collection, but you know, I can understand why it's not in a lot of the people's. But, if I bring it to a convention and this sounds up your street, you're going to want to get into this.

30:01 [screaming] [groaning]

30:10 Number three, we are staying with the co-op thing now. So, back with the co-ops and this one is one of my favorite co-ops. It's definitely I mean, it can be long when you're playing it solo on two player or two-handed, but yeah, if you're playing this with three or four players, this one's going on for a long time. You're playing this for a good you know, two and a half, three hours, four hours plus to go through a scenario. And if you play this with five or six players, you are an absolute nutcase, but it will go on even longer. But for me, you know, playing this with three or four players and playing a three-hour game of this doesn't bother me because you are really discussing what the hell you're going to do in Spirit Island. Spirit Island can go on a long time, but you have got a lot to discuss. You've got a lot to plan. You've got all these powers going off. What you're going to do with your spirit, you know, how you're going to help another spirit, how can they help you, and how the events change up things, and you know, the game arc of starting off on the back foot and then slowly building up your power and bringing it forward. It's it's a such a good puzzly co-op. It is long

31:13 if you play this multiplayer. It is long and it will burn your brain because you will be trying to comprehend how all these effects are going off. It's a fiddly game. It's not a streamlined game by any means, but yeah, you play this with people who know what they're doing. It can be such a good luck such a good I was going to say such a good luck. It can be such a good time. And usually I'm the noob when I play this. I mean, I've played a decent amount of Spirit Island, so I got a reasonable idea of what I'm doing, but I can't beat the really high difficulties. And in true solo, which is how I tend to play it, it's physically impossible to beat some of the stuff on true solo because it's just that hard. But, you know, when you play this multiplayer, I get to attempt some of those harder difficulties, which then means I need to have my brain switched on because it's a a bit of a burner at that point, but you know, when you're playing it, you're involved. You don't just sit there twiddling your thumbs.

32:01 You need to know what's going on. You need to be in everyone's like, right, okay, where are we going to are we syncing up? You're going to do this, cool, let's execute the plan and see how it goes. You're not there bored. You know, you or at least you shouldn't be. If it if it went well, I know my first teach of Spirit Island didn't go well, but you know, after that, yeah, it's such a good involved co-op game. And I think this is the last we're going to see of Oh, no. Oh, no, we got one more co-op left, but once we're done with that, we'll be done with co-ops. But to be honest, I was expecting more co-ops to be on this 10.

32:41 For number two, what I'm on about is the king of long, long co-ops. Uh yeah, this one is the the reason this is higher than, you know, the other ones. Yes, Spirit Island's in my top 10. This isn't in my top 10 games. Didn't come far off, but it's not in my top 10, right? I'm not ranking these based on how much I enjoy the game. I'm also basing it on how long is the game as well as how how much I enjoy it. And this one is long. Like, I think on this list, this is the longest game I have. Like, you know, people will play their Twilight Imperiums, people will play their Europa Universalis and all the other like big civ games. I love a good civ game, but civ games can go on way too long. You know, you can really be just like, ah, come on, can we get a move on, guys? This is taking forever. And Europa Universalis had that same problem. I enjoyed my first play of it, but man, it doesn't need to be that long.

33:34 It's crazy. But this one is the longest game I well, one of the longest games I play and certainly the longest co-op I play, and it's done that way because it's wonderfully thematic. It tells a good game arc. It's based on an IP that I already like, at least the first game. All right, the second one wasn't particularly good, but and I have friends who I can play this with where even if we're playing this for four hours, five hours, six hours, whatever, doesn't matter. Frostpunk is still great fun. Frostpunk is a long game. You can't play this quick. I mean, it'll take you a while to set it up. You've then got to relearn half the rules sometimes, but yeah, you can't lightning round this game. It takes ages. It's long. You know, you've only got you might only be playing a good 10 rounds of the game, 10 to 12 rounds.

34:24 It's going to take you a while to get through those 10, 12 rounds. You've got a lot to discuss with your friends. You've got to think, well, what am what am I going to do with all this? You know, where am I going to you know, we going to focus on saving the children? Am I going to put them in the factories if necessary. You're a monster. Are we going to you know, worry about food, worry about heat? We are in trouble here. The storm's coming up. All right, let's check out the next story card. Oh, great, we've got people being religious cult in the street now. Now, how are we going to deal with this problem? It's You're involved. And even when you play this solo, you're not lightning round this one. I mean, every time I play this solo, I'm still playing this for a good three plus hours. It takes a long time to play the game. And that's when you know exactly what you're doing. But if you're thinking about what you're going to do, planning, co co you know, thinking about the other things that you can do, there's no way you can do this quickly. You you're going to spend a good quarter, half of your day playing this game.

35:18 But I get a kick out of it. It's just a you know, it takes ages and it's definitely as I say, one of the longest games I play, hence it's definitely got to be pretty high up this list, but I still enjoy it despite that length, you know. The time does fly by a little bit, but you know, and again, I think it's the the strong theme. The strong theme comes through and even though yeah, you might argue that having other players there doesn't really add a ton, I don't tend to play this game with a full count of four. I'll usually play it with two or three of us. And then all other times will be solo. But even solo, this game takes ages. So, it doesn't really matter what player count you're at. This is a long game through and through. Anybody claims Frostpunk is not a short is a Sorry, if anyone claims Frostpunk is a short game, you are absolutely mad, okay? You're mad as a hatter and I question what like what powers you have over the concept of time. But I really enjoy this one. Wonderfully thematic.

36:15 Tells a great game arc. Based on a cool computer game. It had to be on my list. Come on, somebody, please think of the children. Gee, I wonder what my number one is, eh? Eh, y'all? I wonder what it could possibly be. What could my number one possibly be? I mean, if you've seen my top 50 lately, if you've seen what I've said about this game on other top 10 lists or just in general, you know, anticipated expansions, that kind of thing, about how this is just basically a stellar design. If you don't guess this is my number one, then you really aren't paying attention. Of course, this four-hour monster of a game about a subject matter that I shouldn't normally care about, you know, basically class politics, and and being like a heavy interactive euro, it there's a lot of stuff about this game that I shouldn't like, but I love it. I played it at the last convention only a few weeks ago and it was just such a fun game again as the middle class, the avocado eaters, winning the day against the others.

37:24 Hegemony. Of course, Hegemony is my number one. I mean, this is a game that easily takes you a four hours to play, no matter who you're playing this with. You play with the four player count, I mean, three players is still going to take you a fair while, you know, three hours plus, but four players is going to take you a four hours plus easily. No questions asked. But you're in it every step of the way. Even when it is not your turn, you do wish that maybe some people would hurry up on their turns, but at the end of the day, everything they do influences you. I want to propose bills and do an immediate vote here. That fundamentally changes the landscape. I want to open these companies. Now, you're working for me here. And it's like, oh, wait, they're workers for me. Now what? You know, you know, the state is now offering benefits to other people. It's like, hmm, that's strange. Is it okay? What can that happen?

38:12 You know, the working class is proposing a bunch of bills for labor union. It's like, oh, okay. Are you sure you don't want to make that immediate? I mean, you know, if you're willing to chuck in the cube, make it immediate. I could help you on this. What? I'm negotiating with you. This game is just you're involved. It's so good. I love this game so much. I mean, it's my number two game of all time, you know, only shy of Art Nova. This is just someone that I get such a kick out of and I cannot wait to see what they do with the expansion coming out. I mean, it's going to be ages before it's released. I mean, I don't even got that many details of it, but it could be really awesome. But given how hard this game was to balance and design and integrate, how the hell you're going to design an expansion for it, I don't know, but I cannot wait to find out.

38:59 You know, introducing policies to do with environmental concerns and crime rates and stuff. Ah, that could be especially especially given what's going on these days. I mean, it could be a lot more shall we say relevant than you think. But yeah, four-hour game of this, it's long. It's basically, you know, one of the three games I might play on a day at a convention or something cuz it's going to take that long. But it's so good. Love it, love it, love it. Oops. I'm involved. I'm always engaged. I'm not bored. You know, I mean, yes, one or two people could maybe hurry up and take their turns a bit quicker at times, which is why there's another game I like to teach unless I'm playing this with friends. You know, I do not like to teach randoms this game. And on that note, seriously, if I put this game on a list and I say experienced players only for playing this game, by experienced I don't mean that you played the game once like two years ago and have forgotten all the bloody rules, okay? There's a difference between experienced and novice, okay?

39:58 That is slightly annoying, but you know, that's on me. I need to give more detail apparently on the you know, want to play lists. But yeah, I you know, that aside, still love it. It's long, one of the longest games I have in my collection. It's just [snorts] solid in loads of different respects. A a paramount design that is definitely a niche game as well. I mean, not a lot of people aren't even going to touch this game for what it is, but those who love it, love it. And it is just so cool that I can play this at least once every convention with somebody, but you know, with at least a group of three people because there are a good amount of fans out there for this. I mean, yeah. Love it, love it, love it. I never get involved in politics.

40:47 Well, there you have it, my top 10 long games. And yes, there's going to be disagreements here like, "Oh, this one isn't long." Whatever, we're not getting into that. And there's a bunch of games that I did consider. I mean, this was a good short list for this. I mean, other ones that I didn't have here so Forbidden Stars, it's still on my shelf. I have not played that in at least half a decade though. I mean, it's a long game. Maybe it's a bit too long for what it is, but it is immersive, it is thematic, it's 40K Warhammer. Um, but yeah, I couldn't really put it on the list. I haven't played it in ages. Trickerion, very long game, easily takes three to four hours. That one I wish was a bit shorter. I mean, you're planning a lot, but you could get screwed out of the game midway and having to plan your final tricks pretty much at the start of the game is kind of annoying. I wish you didn't have to do that. So, yeah, not really a top 10 contender. Uh, Dominant Species Marine, you are involved a bit more during that game for how long it is and it was definitely a contender for nine or 10. The problem with Dominant Species Marine is that if you do get taken out sort of pseudo knockout at one point, which I can say is a flaw of the game, um, then the fact that it's long might be a bit of a problem at that stage.

41:54 Uh, Civilization, whether it's the FFG one over there or any other Civilization game, they're long because they're long and you do have a lot of waiting for people to take their turns, you know, they don't influence the board enough. I mean, Civilization, the FFG one, I enjoy it, but there's a lot of times there where you literally are just sat there waiting for your turn to start because what the other players do does not change anything for you. It you know, they do suffer a lot from that. Uh, Galactic Cruise, I love this game. It's a great Euro, but man, yeah, this one could do with being shorter. It is one of the flaws of the game. You know, this one's taking you three hours plus to finish it and I think it really does need to have a bit of a trim down. Like, you need to put on some of those cubes on the tracking uh, column, you know, before the game starts. It's a bit like the intro rules, but not the intro rules if that makes sense. And if people are taking a while with their turns, you really are sat there wanting to be ejected out of an airlock or at least eject them out of an airlock because it gets to that point, especially with the space travel phase being another part of your turn because they might take forever just to do the space travel bit and it hasn't even got to their actual turn yet and you're still waiting. And then they kick someone else and they've got to decide what they're getting from there. It's like, Ay, ay, ay. I love Galactic Cruise, but man, that could be shorter. Uh, Western Legends, Western Legends could be shorter, I think. I mean, it is a fun thematic game and you are telling stories, but it takes a while to set up and it takes a long time for the game to finish, but I don't feel like I achieve

43:25 as much in that time. A lot All these other games on the list, I feel like I've achieved a decent amount for the time I'm invested. Western Legends, I kind of feel like you don't do enough for the length of the game that it is. And certainly if other people are doing stuff, it probably won't influence you. So, you are you know, twiddling your thumbs a bit on that one. And Underwater Cities, Underwater Cities, great game, but my god, I wish it wasn't so long at four players. In fact, I rarely want to play this at four players because it's so damn long. You know, I will play this with friends at four players, but not with randoms. Oh, boy. Yeah, you could be sat there twiddling your thumbs because the problem is is that the worker placement aspect is so tight in this game that if somebody blocks your space at the last minute, you've got to rethink everything you're doing and it hurts the time. It really does need to be shorter. Underwater Cities definitely helped with the expansion uh, that threw in the quick start rules, but even with those in place, it could still be shorter. And then throw in Date to Era, yeah, you play Date to Era with four players, you try to get that game done in less than three hours. I double freaking dare you.

44:26 Uh, and I mentioned The Gallerist as well. So, there was a lot on my short list there. You're probably wondering, well, yes, I don't like Eclipse. Eclipse is boring. I hate it. It's punishing. Don't like it. It looks horrible. Hate it, hate it, hate it. Eclipse can burn in hell. You know, Twilight Imperium, it has its moments, but I do not want to play that game for six to eight hours with a ton of people waiting forever for my turn. It's just it's not something I enjoy for that length of time, you know. If it was shorter, I mean, I play Empires of the Void 2 as my go-to space game and that one you get done in about two to two and a half hours. It's a great length for it. There is no reason Twilight Imperium needs to be six to eight hours. It's ridiculous. And every time I see this game being played, it goes on that long. So, enough with the people going, "We play our Twilight Imperium game with four of us in three hours." And that's it. And it's like, whatever. You're a niche group and even then, who the hell's playing Twilight Imperium with four players? Most people play it with six to eight. That's how they do it. So, yeah, not counting that one. And of course, yes, I'm sure Oh, why would you mention Civilisation?

45:29 Civilisation needs to be shorter. I hate the fact that it's three hours plus. I mean, that game has a massive luck problem with those dice and if you have to spend time mitigating and someone else doesn't, they're winning by default. That is the universal rule of mitigation, but there's no reason that game should be like four hours plus, which it seems to take with four players. It's ridiculous. And a lot of that is not even down to the fact that you could be spent there for a good 30 to 45 minutes, probably 45 minutes, teaching that freaking game because it's got one of the most front-loaded teaches ever. The SN demo I had of that game was two hours and half of that was the freaking teach. Hey. I mean, man, you know, that game has its cool elements. There are elements of Civilisation I do genuinely like a lot, but the problems it has, mostly down to the time length and the dice mechanic really do kill it for me. And I wish that was shorter. If Civilisation was like a two-hour game, I reckon I could get into it a lot more.

46:26 Um, and finally, of course, the big one. Why have I not mentioned the daddy of the niche group of players who are playing this all the time, Void Fall? Because Void Fall really doesn't need to be as long as it freaking is. I mean, for crying out loud, that one has a front-loaded teach, a front-loaded setup, a front-loaded playtime. You know, you're there for a good, you know, four hours plus trying to finish this wretched thing. You know, at least at least bare freaking minimum three hours on top of the setup and the teach as it is, probably longer than three hours though. And it you know, I enjoyed the game and I gave it a decent rating as a solo game, but even then I got rid of it eventually because it just took too long to relearn it, too long to set up and too long to play it, you know, for what it is. And when it all boils down to it, it barely even feels like a space game.

47:12 It just feels like a Euro game with space on it, you know. And you know, if you're just going to give me a Euro game with mechanics, then for the sake of mechanics, then I can't play them for that long. They need to give me something else. They need to be immersive and Void Fall is not immersive. It's just mechanics and mechanics for three to four doesn't work enough for me. So, you know, it's that one doesn't hit the list either. But I'm sure if somebody else was doing a top 10 long games list, I would probably see Civilisation in there. I'd probably see Void Fall in there. I'd probably see Twilight Imperium in there. You know, there's quite a few that people would put on their list. And by all means, get it in the comments, you know, let me know what you think. So, this is it for me on this video. Hope you enjoyed it. We'll choose another one from the Patreons and see how well they vote in the future. God knows what that will be. This one and the last one I did were definitely the most obvious. But yeah, let me know below what your favorite long games.

48:04 Let's not debate about whether you think something is long or not. Let's just get that out of the way, okay? Just tell me your games that you believe are really long that you love. Get them in the comments, particularly if I've not mentioned them because I'm sure there's plenty of them out there. It'd be interesting to get your views on those. So, without further ado, I'm signing off. Take care and remember, it's only a game and I'll see you on the next