Cardboard & Polders Diary - Parts 1,2,3, & 4

0:00 In the next few seconds when YouTube catches up with us, I think we are now live. Let us know if you are watching this, if you can hear us, and you can see us okay. I'm using a different microphone setup to what I normally use because I'm not at home, believe it or not. I am in the Netherlands with JP. Hello. He's formally from the Whose Turn Is It Anyway podcast.

0:19 Yes, formally, yeah.

0:20 Which is currently on hold, but for those people who are uh avid listeners of the Whose Turn Is It Anyway podcast, there is going to be an announcement in 2 days, 1 day? Yeah, uh Wednesday.

0:30 Wednesday.

0:31 Wednesday. So, watch this space for the future of the Whose Turn Is It Anyway podcast and and what's going to be going on with that. Yep. Uh so, we are live. Excellent. People can hear us and see us. So, the first question that we need to answer is what is Cardboard and Cauldrons and how can you come to it? Well, you can't. That's it. It's a secret event at a secret location in the Netherlands. And there's been about 30 of us, 35 of us. I think this year, yeah. Something like that. Um but it is effectively an event organized by David Turczi and his wife. And 99% of the people here are part of the testing and development team for David's games. And David, as you will know if you know David's games, he works on a lot of games.

1:18 Not just Star Trek Captain's Chair, which has been played many times over this weekend, future content, but also other games that David is working on. Most of which are actually like top secret. So, we can't we can't talk about it. Are there any games that we've played of David's this weekend which are known about to the public? And I'm looking at Adam, and Adam's shaking his head.

1:43 So, David's brother Adam is here, who's one of the co-designers of Captain's Chair. Um He's keeping an eye on us. He's keeping an eye on us, basically. So, there's that one and that one and that one, and they're not even known. And some of them might not happen. You know, David works on games and designs games and play test them ready for pitching to publishers. And some of them might not get picked up. So I played one this afternoon. It was excellent and I can't say anything

2:07 can't say anything about it. So there you go. Um yeah, so that that's what the event is. It is a private event. You cannot just turn up uh and come to it. But it's at a a kind of holiday resort in the Netherlands which I when I saw what it was, it's a little bit like Center Parcs. A little bit like that, yeah. Yeah, Center Parcs, probably a bit smaller but it's that kind of vibes, camping and all that.

2:30 Yeah. And it it's a we're British so we need to talk about the weather. Oh god.

2:35 Bloody hell, it's hot. I don't think I've ever had sweaty palms this much in my life.

2:40 showers a day. Um yeah, the UK at the moment is having a heatwave but that heatwave is also happening where we are and we are in a non-air conditioned building with zero air movement. So I've been wafting you with game boards

2:57 Yeah. for the last 3 days. And reversing with rule books. Yeah. Just back as well. So it's been it's been stiflingly hot but there's lots of been lots of games we've played, lots of great people here. Let's talk about some games that we can talk about cuz it's not just a development testing weekend. It is a fun weekend where we've been able to play some games. So personally I've had two games of World Order. The main reason for that is I've recently got my copy of it and I wanted to play it but also I'm going to be demoing it at UK Games Expo next weekend. So I needed to get some practice games in so that I've got experience at at teaching the game. So I've got two games of World Order which was good. I brought Rebuilding Seattle with me at last minute I decided, "Oh, I've got room for one more game. Let's pack that." And I'm glad I did cuz I've got to play that twice and people have have been enjoying that.

3:46 What have you played? I've played three games of Leviathan Wilds this weekend and I've seen that played a lot. And loads of people were playing this game. I think it's probably one of the most games that have just been on the table all weekend. It's just been a fun game. For those that don't know much about it, it's like a boss battler where you you kind of play as climbers that kind of climb it up it trying to shatter these crystals that have taken over these big beasts. And yeah, you play cooperatively, and they're trying to The beasts are trying to kill you, and it's supposed to be you got to figure it out before the time goes out. It plays in an hour. It's really really quick. It's good fun. Is it Is it relatively new out? I think it got kickstarted either last year or the year before. I think it's fulfilled last year, but there's an expansion on Kickstarter crowdfunding. Cuz it's It's been played about six or seven times this weekend, and I'm just not sure why it's been played loads this weekend.

4:39 I mean, I got a copy, and I brought my copy last week. Okay. And I just bought it cuz I thought, "Oh, it might be quite a nice nice one to kind of use as a bit of a filler." And that's exactly I think why it's been played a lot because it's an hour per scenario per per leviathan. But yeah, that's been been played a lot. You've also played Andromeda's Edge.

4:58 Oh, yeah. First night.

4:58 that? Yeah, that's that's becoming a little bit of a tradition. One of Adam's over here. He He loves a bit of Andromeda's Edge, so we played that with David and Adam and Mr. Dainty who was here.

5:08 Yeah, Mike Dainty was here. Yeah. Um so And you played Clans of Caledonia this afternoon. We did. Yeah, first game ever. Finally rectified that. Which is good. But you played it with the Did you just play the base game? Yeah, with probably maybe some tiny modules from Industria. We didn't play with the big choo-choo train. Yeah. Um cuz Frank said no. Said no, first game, leave it out. It's fair enough. Now, in terms of Captain's Chair, cuz I think there are people in the chat who want to know about Captain's Chair. Yeah. Um so, I've been invited numerous times by Adam and David to try out some of the new captains. But I don't do playtesting anymore. I used to years ago, but I tend to avoid playtesting these days, mainly because my brain is so focused on the current stuff that I kind of don't have the brain capacity to play something which is then going to change anyway.

5:59 Um so, I have not

6:00 He can't resist it. Yeah, I've not done I've not done any of So, we waited We waited for David to leave the building until going live, but he's just come back in.

6:10 He drove back. I think he turned around and came back.

6:13 saw we were talking about him.

6:15 [snorts]

6:16 Um so, Captain's Chair Wave 2 is going to be delivered, I think, June is the official date now. I'd heard various stories, but the official word from WizKids is July. there were delays on the Oh, July? July. Okay. Uh so, Wave 2 contains two boxes. There is To Boldly Go, which is a standalone game. Six captains are included in that. And then there is an expansion called Second Contact. But that expansion can be played with either To Boldly Go or with Box 1, which doesn't have a name. It's just Star Trek Captain's Chair. We call it Box 1. Box 1. Um To be honest, I don't know anybody who is only going to buy Oh, no, I'll tell you what. I'll I'll just buy Box 1 and Second Contact. No. Nobody's going to do that.

7:04 No. If If that's you, then tell me why. Because if you like the game, you're going to buy all of the stuff that's associated with it. Yes. So, that's Wave 2. Um The other waves are in development. I don't think it's a secret that there is more content in development. I personally don't know what's been approved and what hasn't been approved, but that isn't stopping the development team from working really hard on this. So, it isn't guaranteed that there's going to be any more product as far as I know, but I assume if the game's popular enough, WizKids are going to go Yeah. Yeah. Um but the name of Wave 3 got accidentally I'm not going to say it here, but a German website did accidentally spoil the name of the box from wave three at some point. We're not going to say it here because I think that's now been covered over.

7:56 Um but there is information probably out there on the internet about that.

8:00 Okay. Um but yeah, uh is wave three what you've been playing or have you been playing stuff beyond wave three?

8:07 have to look over to my left.

8:09 nodding. We believe so, yes. Yes. Um do you want to join us, Adam, for a couple of minutes?

8:17 Come on, Adam. So, Adam Tursi, his name is is not on the box for box one. It is not, indeed. But it is on the box it is on the uh your name is on the box for boxes two and three and will be on there for all future ones. And so, what happened Whatever future ones there are.

8:34 Why is it not on box one and why is it on box two? What changed? Uh well, simply I I haven't been very much By the time I joined the team and and uh took part in the testing and development of box one, it was pretty much done.

8:49 Okay. Yeah. Um that's just it, but I have uh development credit there and then for box two essentially, the more I tested, the more I developed for box one, the they David put more and more uh responsibility in my hands and then for box two, I two of two of the the captains there are essentially my base draft design. Um and for box three, there's even if there's a box three, there's going to be even more for me. Right. Um So, one thing that's David has said many times is about do you need to enjoy Star Trek as an IP in order to play Captain's Chair? And David, many times over the last two years, has said, "Well, actually, one of the developers has played this game 200 times and has never seen an episode of Star Trek.

9:39 Is this true?

9:40 And that was you.

9:41 Is it true, Ed?

9:42 No, it wasn't me. No? No, it wasn't me.

9:45 Oh, was that somebody else?

9:46 No, I Yeah, I mean, he's still part of the team and he still hasn't seen the

9:49 most of

9:50 All right, okay. most of Star Trek.

9:51 you. No, no, no. I By the

9:54 By the time By the time So, when they David showed me uh box one uh but the time the first first time David showed me box one, I was looking at helping him with Imperium.

10:05 Yep. But then David showed me box one of uh of Star Trek and that was 2 years before release.

10:11 Yep. Um and I was like, now this I like.

10:16 Okay.

10:16 Imperium didn't quite grab me yet.

10:18 Same Same with me. But but I was like, now this I like. And at that point, I've only known very little. I only known a little TNG

10:24 Okay. So, you didn't know the game. Star Trek. And then I was like, you know what? I'm going to watch everything. By the time [clears throat] I joined development on box on the core box, I pretty much have seen everything.

10:33 Right. Okay. Uh but yeah, we definitely have We have several At this point, we have several people regularly on our testing Discord who don't haven't really seen much or anything of Star Trek.

10:44 And you don't need to. And I see people on forums, I see people on Discord, and even Mr. Dainty has not, you know, don't know much Star Trek and he says he loves it. So, you know, there there's plenty of people who who we see uh say that, you know, you don't need

10:59 You don't. And And one of the best examples, I think, is Riker's Resupply Operation. So, Riker, who is the first officer of the USS Enterprise D, and he's in the Picard deck, which is the first deck from box one, the one that you recommend. And Riker is in there and Riker has a Resupply Operation that says, "Gain one Latinum." If you don't know anything about Star Trek, you go, "Okay, I gain one Latinum." If you know about Star Trek, you know that Riker is a good poker player. Mhm. And that ability on his card represents the fact that he's a good poker player. So, there's so much theme in every single one of the lines of text. If you want it, then it's there. And as a Trekkie myself, there's a load of cards that I'm like, I've no idea who that is. So, the thematic connection of that ability doesn't mean mean anything to me because it was the guy in episode 14 of season 3. And I'm like, I've no idea who this is. So, I'm a Trekkie, but I don't know every episode in detail. Yeah, I I love it because sometimes we we put a little theme in one of the cards, like half a half a sentence or a trait thing or something represents their thematic nature from from one of the shows. And then someone on the forums or in the Discord goes, "Oh, this means that." And they point to a completely different part of that of that character that also fits that theme very well. And it's just I love how how much it works.

12:22 Yeah. Um and and so many times you have designed a card like blind to everything, like blind to the whole thing. Like we're just like, "This is what I think it would do based on the theme." And then we play it and we're like, "Yep, that works."

12:34 Okay. Okay. It's it's it's very good.

12:36 Do you other than Captain's Chair then do you get roped into developing or testing any of other the Davids' games? I do get roped into certain things, uh but not not as much. Unfortunately, I I I do have a a job that that takes a lot out of me, so I I keep it to what I can.

12:55 And Captain's Chair must be fairly time-intensive. It's

12:58 Speaking as somebody who's spent about 200 hours in the last couple of months playing it for all of the videos that I've had to do, it is an intense game.

13:04 Yeah, and it and it occupies a lot of my mind as well. Sometimes I got to check out of it, but when I check back in, it takes a lot, you know. And I I love it. It's it's a really cool So, if you are a Star Trek Captain's Chair fan, where where can people meet you? Are you going to be at Essen this year? Essen, absolutely. And where will you be at Essen? Uh Essen are the we def our German version publisher, So, Frosted Games? Frosted Games.

13:30 And you'll be hanging around that booth.

13:32 Absolutely. I'll be hanging around. They will have games to sell. Yep. I believe in only German edition, but David and I will definitely be there handing out promos, being in our I think we're planning a a cool little Star Trek flash mob or something.

13:48 Excellent.

13:49 That's awesome. So, I'm I'm a big believer in the phrase credit where credit's due. Oh. So, what I'm going to ask for is when people who are watching this video, if you're going to Essen and you're a Star Trek Captain's Chair fan and you want to go and meet David, go and say hello to Adam as well. Please do. Because otherwise everybody will be coming up and saying hello to David and they'll be like, "Who's Who's this guy?"

14:12 Oh, David's been very kind and has been pointing me out as well. And David's got loads of games that people come to come to him about. Yeah, anyone I'd love to meet anyone and talk about Star Trek. The The funny thing is on BGG about 2 weeks ago, somebody asked a question. It was a rules question. And somebody answered and then somebody else said, "Oh yeah, and I was speaking to, you know, Adam Starkweather blogger." And somebody corrected them and said, "Actually, the the designer is David." And then somebody corrected them and went,

14:45 Actually. Actually.

14:47 I I had a whole conversation with someone on Discord and after the the eighth message, they realized that my role in the Discord is is designer and they're like, "Oh, okay. Now your answers make sense." And I was like, But it must be difficult. It must be difficult cuz everybody knows David and his name was on the first box. Yeah, on the on the forums I'm not really visible. I haven't been taking part in the BGG forums as much, but on the Discord I'm I I I take part in that. Excellent. Right. Well, thanks very much. Thank you very very much. What was your favorite game that you've played this weekend that wasn't Star Trek Captain's Chair?

15:21 Yeah, the game's with me. I mean I mean you I really like you mentioned the Viticulture. I actually really love Viticulture and it's something I'm considering buying. Uh I absolutely love our Frosthaven. I mean it was mental but I forgot we played that. I I hate that I don't have that game and I I really You should get in contact with the designer. Oh. Uh David He's got a really famous brother. And this Oh wow, okay. That was a good game. That was fun. Cool. Right. But yeah, thank you so much. Bye-bye. There you go. Right, so yeah you played Defensive Procyon 3 that you last played at at GridCon as well.

15:59 yeah. It was that's the my third play and this time I played as the principal which is on the alien side as the ground forces.

16:06 Right. And yeah, not played that one before. So yeah, I'm trying to work my way around all of the factions so that I can teach this thing. Right. Cuz it's a very highly asymmetric game and

16:15 Yeah. it's you know, the the way you learn it is here's a rulebook each and you also get your own faction rulebook. You need to read it. I mean there's no easy way to to kind of learn those rules. Well, there are some online bits and stuff but um you just got to play. Yeah. Yeah, but it's good fun. So another secret game that I played this weekend um yeah, it's one that I can't say anything about. I think it is known that Czech Games Edition are going to have a new game at Essen this year. So they have announced Drillers which is going to be their game which is going to be coming out at Gen Con but CGE are going to have a new game at Essen this year which hasn't been announced yet. It is going to be announced I believe in June. Okay. So if you're going to UK Games Expo, you won't be able to see it.

17:03 It's not going to be there for demo or anything like that. I've been asked to create a video on it, not a playthrough video but I've been asked to create like a short overview video which I'm really happy about because I'm glad they've asked me to do it but I'm a little bit uncomfortable because I don't do those types of videos. Um I like just playing the game and explaining the game, and it's not that. It is just going to be 10-minute overview. David went to the Gathering of Friends earlier this year and got chance to play it there. David has a uh he knows Roger, so David contacted Roger and said Roger works with CGE, obviously, and can we have a copy of it here this weekend? So, there is a copy. It's over there. No, it's over there. Um and I'll be bringing it home with me. So, um yeah, and I can't say anything about it other than it it's going to be CGE's big new game for this year that I've I've managed to get a couple of games off this weekend. Don't try and stop us on the way home tomorrow. Just to get a sneaky peek. Don't Yeah, if we see you at the channel tunnel taking photos We're not having it. Yeah. Um other games that I've played this weekend, I've had two games of War of the Ring. Oh, you have, haven't you?

18:07 You've been put through the wringer. So,

18:08 the Ring. Yeah. Um so, Asaf, Easy Board Games content creator, friend of mine, we planned to play War of the Ring here. And we did on the Friday morning. So, yeah, the first the first We came in on the Thursday, didn't we? Friday. No, Friday. They said, you know We don't know anymore. Saturday morning, 9:00, played War of the Ring. War of the Ring is a game which I am relatively late to the party on. It's 20 years old. I first played it properly about four, five years ago. And then have played it once a year for the last few years. And then this was the year where I said, I need to play this multiple times, and I've now played it five times this year already. It is an utterly fantastic game. I love it. And I have this game planned for 9:00 Saturday morning. We lost as the uh shadow forces. So, we had a rematch on Sunday morning at 9:00. And it was the most tense and epic game that I've ever had with War of the Ring. Nice.

19:09 It was um I felt like I was going to have a heart attack for the last 90 minutes. I've not slept much in the last four days. So, my physical health is a bit all over the place, but this game was edge of the seat tension, absolute tense. And I was just I was scared. I was you know, it was a really really difficult game. And it all came down ultimately to one dice roll. After about four hours of play, this high tension game, we were on eight points, they were on three points. And if you don't know the game, the dark forces need 10 points to win, and the free peoples either destroy the ring or they get four points. So, they needed one more point to win, and they were about to take uh, Umbar. They Gandalf had gone on this journey.

19:55 He'd left he he left the fellowship on day one. He went, "Screw you, Frodo. I'm off." Yeah. He headed on to Bree.

20:01 Uh-huh. He then took a load of the Northmen from Bree, went up to Angmar, took Angmar, went round, attacked Mount Gundabad, didn't take Mount Gundabad, and then went off to see the elves, and then headed all the way down, picked up a load of forces from Gondor and Dol Amroth, and then ended up attacking Umbar. I mean, that is some trek.

20:19 It was just I mean, never seen that in a game before. So, they they were sieging Umbar, and they had like eight forces, and we had three in defense, and they were going to take it. They were going to win the next turn. So, our only hope was to try and get the two points we needed. Now, we'd been launching a siege on Erebor up in the north, the dwarven stronghold. So, we had that under siege. But, the Witch-king decided that he knew he was needed elsewhere. So, he left two orcs in siege of Erebor, and there was one dwarf in Erebor. And we were like, "Right. That's our only chance. We've just got to try to these two orcs that have been sat there for six months waiting for orders to attack." Right, go. And they're like, "What? There's only two of us." And basically, if we'd have succeeded in that roll, uh, we would have won the game. Yeah. And we didn't. So, we lost.

21:07 But, yeah, it was it was a fantastic game. I absolutely love War of the Ring. I think it deserves all the credit it gets and it it was an amazing game. I mean, the fact you said you played it what, five times?

21:17 Five times this year.

21:18 It's May. Yeah.

21:20 It's only May and that's that's an achievement.

21:22 played it on Tolkien Day and then I played it at Bacon. Yeah. Or maybe only four times. I would say it feels like five. Five five sounds better. Yeah.

21:30 Now, following on from an extremely well-respected, amazing game that we played for 4 hours and it was really tense and it came down to a dice roll. Let's talk about Talisman.

21:43 Oh, god. So, if you've not been watching my channel for the last 18 months, I spent I played Talisman with a when I was a kid. So, when I, you know, 1983, 1984, Saturday afternoons, everybody came around to Paul's house and we'd play Talisman.

21:59 Mhm. We didn't have many other games at the time and to be fair, I was 14. So, that's what we enjoyed. And then, as I moved into more serious games, should we say, I've spent the last 20 years saying that Talisman is one of the worst games ever designed. You would No amount of money would get me to play it again. And then about 18 months ago, I got chance to play the fifth edition and I went, "Ah, I actually enjoyed this." So, I've played Talisman three times this weekend. You have? Now, the reason why I brought Talisman this weekend is because I wanted the chance to show some other people who also had the same opinion of Talisman as I did that this isn't as bad as you think it is because the fifth edition does change a few of the rules that make it a much better game. Yeah. And I've played it three times this weekend with a whole bunch of people, some of whom had never even heard of the game, but saw us playing it and thought, "Ah, that looks fun. I'll I'll give that a try." And some people who had the same opinion about of me and went, "Okay, let's try this new version."

23:04 And at the end of each game, I've explained what the rules were in the previous editions, and they've gone, "Oh, yeah, I don't want to play that." You know, these rules tweaks, it's still Talisman, okay? They have not changed the fundamental um roll and move, but there are things around that. So, I played that three times. I played the competitive version twice, I played the cooperative version once. The reason why I have segued nicely from War of the Ring into Talisman Yeah. is the game of Talisman that we had today took about 2 hours, and Hilmar was going to win, and he got to the end, and he made an unlucky dice roll, and he didn't have any fate to reroll, and he got killed by the dragon on the last space, which means I won. Oh, good.

23:49 So, to counter all of those haters of Talisman that say, "It's completely random." And we played for 2 hours, and Hilmar got unlucky, and lost the game because of it, and then I won. I refer you back to War of the Ring Yeah. from the day before. And it's just interesting how it was the same end result. Mhm. Both games were down to a random dice roll at the end of it. And that's kind of Yeah, I don't I don't think that's fascinating. Many Battlestar Galactica games I've played have been down to a dice roll, whether you hyper jump to lose population or not.

24:25 Yeah. And it's been like a 50/50. Right.

24:28 play for 4 hours, it's like it all comes down to this. There's a There's a story that a friend of mine, Ian Bowler, who I used to play games with when I lived in Hertfordshire, uh this this story that I'm about to tell you is about 20 years old. So, I may be misremembering it, but screw that, it's a good story. Flames of War Mhm. is a a World War II war game

24:50 Okay. that's played on a massive scale, and they played it 12 hours a day, every day, yeah, for 10 days. Okay.

25:00 It's It's a big epic game that takes a long time to play. Yeah. And he said at the very very end of the game, the Germans had one tank left Mhm. at the gates of Moscow, and it was a 50/50 dice roll that determined who won that game. After 12 hours a day, every day, for 10 days, it came down to a 50/50 dice roll. That's a tense start to your day, though. Does that mean it's a good game, or does that mean it's a bad game? Cuz I don't I don't know. Does that mean you've wasted the last 10 days of your life when you may as well have just flipped a coin?

25:32 It depends on how epic that moment is, what it all boils down to, right?

25:36 It It's the whole thing about It's not the journey. No, it's It's It's not the thing It's the journey. It's not the destination, it's the journey. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's what it's all about. So. Hey, Mark's back. He's back home. Is he? Yeah, Mark's back home.

25:52 Yeah, we're still here. Yeah, we're still here. Glad you got home, Mark. Um we were just talking about you, weren't we? We were. Yeah.

25:59 You missed it. It was all good. It was all good. What else have we played? We have I played Slay the Spire. You played Slay the Spire?

26:05 Acts one, two, and three. And won? Uh yeah, we did. It helps that we got some um Crazy combos. crazy combos and and games testers around that. Right, who can break things.

26:16 You want to play co-op games with with them. Right. You just stand back and go, "Off you go." Yeah. But that was good. That was a epic game. I really love Slay the Spire. I think it's just good fun. Um yeah, I played that. I played World Order. You played World Order? You You So, JP played World Order last night.

26:35 Yeah. And you took a photo of the scores, or somebody took a photo of the scores. And it was like, the winner got 104, Yes. and then Europe got 103,

26:43 Yeah. and then America got, I think, 101, Yeah. and you got 99, Yeah. but then you realized you'd forgotten This morning, when I woke up four points in final scoring. So the actual scores were 104, 103, 103, 101. Yeah. And then you got it was the tiebreaker. Yeah. Cuz I said to the lady that played Europe that you actually came second and she was like, "No, no, no, I came second."

27:06 I think you'll find

27:08 I didn't want to be that guy.

27:09 But there was a tiebreaker rule and she said, "What was the tiebreaker then?" And she And I said, "We're not sure. Oh. We think it might have been most tanks." And you were playing China and you had to say

27:16 I had six tanks. So, yeah. But yeah, very very close game. Cuz I taught them how to play and then left about halfway through.

27:23 Yeah, got us to round three, didn't he? Scoring done. Yeah. So That was fun. And if you're at UK Games Expo and you are interested in World Order, I will be demoing it in the mornings if you want to stop by and see the game. Um I won't be there in the afternoon, but they are still doing demos of World Order. So, it's not just me that's going to be demoing it. You're going to be at Expo, but you're not working at Expo. You're just going to be there.

27:46 there pleasure and be around and enjoy the event and seeing publishers and designers and the games and you know, all the all the fun exciting part. That's that's what I like to do at Expo. Um yeah. Just

28:00 And if you are if you are going to UK Games Expo and you want to know what games are coming out that you need to check out, then our friend Mark Monk from Ninja Geek Games has got his top 10 games to look out for at UK Games Expo. I watched it. I'd heard of two of them. Yes.

28:15 Which shows how out of touch I am with what's actually going on um from a consumer point of view. I I'm so deeply embedded into all of the stuff that I'm involved in that I I generally have no idea what's coming out next week. So Yeah, check that one. It's good video.

28:30 Yeah. Yeah. Has Mark got one as well? Mark, Mr. Dainty, have you done a games to look out for at UK Games Expo? I'm not sure. I can't remember if I've seen it or not.

28:40 No, I don't know. If not, get cracking, mate.

28:42 Yeah, get cracking. You've got a couple of days.

28:45 Um That's it. We're So, we're here tonight and then we're going to head back tomorrow morning.

28:51 Yeah, got to get up early. 11 to 12 hour journey. So Yeah. It's it's it's a long way to come. It is. But it's been a an epic 3 days. It's been a lot going on. It's been lovely. It's been a privilege to to be here to be honest. That's how I see it and but yeah, just to get some carve some time out to to play some games with some awesome people.

29:12 Yeah. Yeah. And do some testing of future campaigns.

29:15 Which is just always fun. Let's face it.

29:17 Cuz you like that part of it, don't you? Yeah, like I like tinkering with the the new stuff and and just seeing what's there. But I do also like getting the final product. But it is quite it's quite interesting to see now Adam and David respond to certain things you've done and go, "Huh. I'm not sure that's right. I'm not sure that's right. May- maybe we need to look at that." I don't you know, all that kind of stuff. But yeah, it's good fun. Yeah.

29:42 Yeah. Uh let's have a look at the If you got any questions for us Yeah. just before we wrap things up, let us know. I'm just having a look. Uh Jordan's got a question. How is Expo for press? That's what it says. Press of press of humanity. Easy to move around. Um things Last year was a bit of a nightmare because they changed the layout of the halls last year and there was a weird My brain couldn't work it out. Every time I went into hall three or four, I got lost. Yeah. I think I I don't know about the layout.

30:13 I I felt it to personally for me, I felt that the layout change was better because before you'd have hall one, hall two, hall three and hall two and three on a different level to hall one.

30:24 One. One and two. Yeah, one and two are split by stairs. Which is a choke point. You never would want to go up those stairs if you want to get anywhere quickly. But because now everything's on the the the same level, so you probably got halls two, three, four which kind of wrap around it like a U shape. I found actually that the corridors and walkways are a lot wider.

30:43 Yeah. Um so I felt it was easier to get around. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't like we could skip around.

30:48 busy.

30:48 It's still busy.

30:49 busy, but but it just felt the corridors are wider.

30:51 It felt better. Yeah. And um I think there might be even more space this year, so But How many people are going to go to UK Games Expo? Nobody knows.

31:01 A lot. There was talk about whether they're going to reach the 50K this

31:04 Oh, really? Okay. Um I reckon it'll probably get to 45K based on the attendance figures, the growth over there. I can't believe somebody said the other day, it's been 10 years since they've been in the NEC. Has it been that long?

31:16 And I'm like, my god, time flies when you get older, but I remember the first cuz I've been going to UK Games Expo since the start. And I remember when they moved to the Hilton. Yeah. And then I never forget the feeling that I had when I went into the NEC for the first time that UK Games Expo was there. I was like, they've come a long way since And if you were at UK Games Expo, the first ever one, let us know in case it was held in a small hotel in West Birmingham called the Clarendon Suites. And it was basically just a series of hotel rooms with a few like exhibitors in each one. And they they've grown it into the the powerhouse that it is now. It's It's amazing and it is It is great. Um What's interesting for me working at a booth and it's the same at um Essen as well is that I sit there at my table and I demo games to people. And I have no idea what's going on.

32:11 And then people go, "Oh my god, it was really busy. It was packed. You couldn't move around." And I'm like, "Well, I'm all right. I'm sat here on me chair and I'm I'm okay." Until I need to get up and go to the loo. And then I'm like, "Oh, right. I'm now joining this massive train of people going in that direction."

32:26 [snorts]

32:26 Um So, yeah. Um Yeah, James is in the chat. James is coming over all the way from Canadia. And uh yeah, he he He he hopes the air con gets turned on early cuz they don't generally turn the air con on on the setup day. No. And that's because they have all of the the big doors at the outside of the halls open cuz people are driving in with vans and cars. So, they don't have the air con on on that day. And then they turn the air con on normally. But, on that day it does tend to be quite quite hot and sweltering like tea. Um so, Mark is saying he's not running demos of Whisperwood for Cardboard Alchemy. We doing it at Oh, sorry. Although I am. Yes. Yeah. Whisperwood, the new game that's coming from Cardboard Alchemy. Mark Dainty from Not Board Gaming is going to be doing demos of that. I think again just in the mornings until about 1:00.

33:13 Yeah. Um but, you can swing by and have a go on that. And he says he hasn't done a game at Right, that's why we haven't seen him do a video cuz he's He's busy. He hasn't He hasn't done one yet. That's fair enough. Uh what expansions did you use for War of the Ring? Didn't use any. Um And you might think, well, why am I not using expansions for a game when I've now played it four or maybe five times this year? Yeah. I don't I don't think the game needs expansions. Now, if you're a fan of the game, you'll be like, oh no, I you need the first expansion. You can't play it without the first expansion. It fixes the game. For me, where I am with the game is I'm still learning it. And I don't want to I I want to become comfortable 100% comfortable with the base game before adding in anything else. And I'm almost at that stage. I have heard the first expansion does make the game better. Mhm. But, I still feel that the base game alone is still an utterly fantastic game. And when my 20th anniversary edition arrives, I do want to play some of the expansions because otherwise I'll have them sat there not doing anything. And they are doing a new expansion as well, the Sieges of Middle-earth, which is going to be So, they're they're still adding extra stuff for the game. They're still expanding upon it.

34:29 So, yeah, didn't didn't use any expansions this time. Um yeah. Well, if I have to say, if you got any other questions, you got a few minutes. I I'm not sure what else we can think of to say. No, we haven't really gone anywhere. No, we we we just stayed here. I mean, I did take a dip in the pool. Yeah, or you've been in the pool or the lake? The lake. Yes, I've the the lake has been a godsend. So, we're we're kind of situated yeah, right outside of lake. This you know, it's literally a view right there and it's been so sweltering that it just gets to about 1:00 and and it's the only thing you can do Just to kind of let go and lie down there like some sort of pilgrimage to the middle of the lake. And then come back and refresh for at least 5 minutes. Yeah.

35:13 It is a It is a nice venue. It's quite big. I don't know how the there's there's chalets everywhere. Um the the problem is the heat and and this particular building that we are in is not built for this level of heat. There's no air conditioning and because the air has been just absolutely still, there's no fans or anything like that and yeah, it's been it's been quite sweltering. It does. And I'm you know, I'm I'm not I'm not a big person. No. And I don't sweat much. Mhm. But I've been sat opposite people this weekend that are literally it's been Just being eaten alive just being eaten. Um so yeah, it's been it's been quite warm. Yeah. Uh what we got? So, yeah, message in the chat just I'm in a similar situation. Presumably this is worth playing a couple of times. Haven't added any expansions yet.

35:58 Yeah. Yeah, and I think it it's weird because some people can add expansions too early. But This this guy. The right, okay. But it really depends on the expansion. Like if I was to teach anybody Terraforming Mars now for the first time, I would use Prelude. You have to use Prelude. But I am a big believer of never using expansions on your first game. Mhm. So, Prelude is an exception for me, yeah. But other than that, you throw everything in right from the start. No, no, I I what I tend to do and I I kind of fall into a trap. I'll play a game once or twice. I get excited.

36:32 Mhm. And and it's usually because I'm a completionist when I purchase games, so typically the expansions will follow suit, especially if it's been out a while. Right. And then I'm like, "Oh, what does this do?" And I'm just kind of keen to see what things do cuz I get a lot of my enjoyment from um pushing buttons and pulling levers and games and new mechanisms and and trying to figure out the puzzles. So, for me, I love it, but obviously not everyone does.

36:57 Yeah.

36:57 And what you can do is is basically allow people to bounce off games quick if you just throw the kitchen sink in

37:04 Yeah. everything in it when they don't even know what what it's about. So, so typically, I'm pretty good if it's people's first plays or first few. I will strip it back. Yeah. Uh exceptions to that is sometimes when the game has integrated expansion content, like where you'd have to sit for half hour or maybe longer stripping, you know, certain bits out that

37:23 Oh, okay. that you that you've had to do because it's, you know, a rotten so whatever. Uh so, that's always a bit like, "Ooh, do I want to do that?" But yeah, typically, I I I will uh bring it back to base if I can. It's interesting what you said cuz I Yeah. I like the experience of learning a game for the first time. Yeah.

37:41 I generally find that an enjoyable experience. But over the last 3 years, I have almost always rejected any offers to play a game that's a new game unless there is a reason for me learning it because I'm covering it on the channel. And that's been the case this weekend. I've been invited this game. Ah, Paul, we're starting a game of such and such thing. Do you want to play it? And mentally, I go, "No." Yeah. I I I don't want to look I don't want to play that game because it's a new game that I would have to learn. And right now, my brain is at capacity

38:19 Mhm. of what it can take in terms of um you know, and when I look at my schedule over what games I'm covering over the next three or four months, my focus is is on those. It does mean I potentially get to miss out on some good games like Leviathan Wilds. I got asked if I wanted to play it and I went no, cuz I just didn't want to put any extra stuff on my brain.

38:42 But when I am you know, when I'm playing the game for the first time like when last week when I learned um my stroke for the first time, which I then covered on the channel on Friday. That process of learning it the first time is an enjoyable process.

38:53 Mhm. But on the flip side of that, I'm most comfortable when I know a game. Yeah. And this is why a game like Voidfall took me three games before I started really enjoying it. And then after three or four games, I'm like, right, I actually know the rules and I have a bit of an idea

39:12 Yeah. of how to actually do well.

39:14 Yeah. Right. And that's when I'm most comfortable. So if you if you give me a a complex game and I it's my second game of it, I I wouldn't say I actually enjoy it. Oh.

39:26 Cuz I'm I'm still at the discovery stage. It's weird. I go from a different kind of enjoyment, that kind of enjoyment of like, oh this is new, what does this do? To then the middle stage where I'm like, well I know what this does, but I'm no good at it.

39:38 Yeah, but now now it's annoying me. Yes. And then I go to the So now So now when I sit down and play Voidfall, I'm comfortable with it. And I and I like being comfortable with it, especially when I play with people who know the game as well as me.

39:53 Yeah. So you're not having to worry about, oh did I tell them this rule? Do they know that? Yeah. Yeah, but you you quite often are in teacher mode, aren't you, with games with people. So that's always an extra overhead where actually just to turn up and go, oh we all know how to play this. Oh god, I can just play it.

40:10 Yeah. Yeah. I could just enjoy it for what it is, which is the play experience.

40:14 And thankfully for me, I I love the process of teaching games. So, I think at least three games this weekend that I said I've just played, I didn't actually play. I was at the table, I taught everybody else, and I didn't actually play those games myself. But, because I enjoy teaching so much, and I was so tired, I didn't want to disappear halfway through the game and mess it up for everybody else. I kind of said, "Look, once everybody knows the rules, I'm going to I'm going to disappear." So, that that works quite well.

40:41 Yeah, that was good. Yeah. Yeah. So, right. Well, we'll just check the chat and see if there's anything else. James is saying we're not at David's version of Gathering of Friends, which he just got back from. No, we're Oh, you are at. Yeah, I can't see the chat. Yeah, sorry about that. This is This is This is effectively David's version of Gathering of Friends. It's an invite-only event in the Netherlands. Um but unlike the Gathering of Friends, which is yeah, open to various publishers, hundreds of people in the industry, and everything else, this is mainly just for a fairly closed group of Yeah. of playtesters. And um yeah. We have We Yeah, we we we've talked about having when I when I used to do my own convention before GridCon started, it was effectively the same thing. It was a private invite-only event at my house, 25-30 people, and then the numbers were growing and growing and growing, and people joked and said, "Well, if you want to grow it any further, you need to Yeah. run your own convention." That was like 10 years ago, and we were like, "No, no, no, we don't want to do that." And now look where we are. Now you're in GridCon. Um Yeah. Speaking of GridCon, just in case you are interested, cuz we were asked this only a few days ago, um June, sometime in June, is when the waiting list is going to go up. So, GridCon is currently sold out, but we always have a waiting list, and we always, in the past, I can't promise anything, but we always get through about 25-30 people on that waiting list, because between now and November, things happen.

42:11 Life. Uh life happens, and some people have to drop out. So, yeah, I can't guarantee it, but the the waiting list will go live at some point in June. Keep an eye on the Grid Con Facebook page for details about that. And um yeah, we'll we'll we'll see where we are. But, other than that, it's it's great. People have already been planning games. You've already got some things roughly mentally planned.

42:32 Yeah, roughly. I haven't locked any time in yet.

42:34 Defensive Procyon 3 again?

42:35 It's probably going to happen. Um I might I might actually have all four factions played Uh

42:40 at that point, but yeah, yeah. No doubt. Yeah.

42:43 [snorts]

42:44 No doubt. Um but yeah, that's everything. So, we're going to disappear now. That's Um a lot of the people who have been here this weekend have now gone.

42:52 Mhm. Uh which means we've got our own rooms tonight.

42:54 We have.

42:55 So, I'm going to I'm going to go over there in that room and you're going to go over there in that room. Yeah.

42:58 leaving at earlyish.

43:00 8:00. Yeah, about 8:00 8:00 a.m. Um you're all right. You you can sleep sleep in the car if you want.

43:06 and sleep in the car. We'll see. As long as you get a good night's sleep.

43:09 That's that's that's be driving.

43:10 Yeah, otherwise we might be in trouble. And we'll we'll see how we get on at Calais. It can't be any worse than on the way in. No, fingers crossed. They were They've instituted a new series of passport checks and there was massive delays on the UK side of it.

43:26 Mhm. Um so, we'll we'll we'll see. We'll see

43:29 how it is going back. Yeah. We've got nothing else to do other than go home. So, Yeah, and talk about all of the secret new games that

43:35 Exactly. I've got a folder actually. Yeah. Should be good. Um so, that'll be tomorrow. I don't have any other content planned this week. I have Wednesday as my only day off where I will be basically prepping for UK Games Expo and then I will be leaving for UK Games Expo on Thursday morning. So, if you are one of my Patreon supporters, you I will be posting a Patreon update about where I will be because we will be having various meetups in the evening at UK Games Expo. So, keep an eye on that. And then normal content will return to the channel the week afterwards. and I can tell you now the first video that I'm going to be doing well it might not be the first video that I do that week cuz it's the Friday but the Friday play through after Expo which I think is the 5th of June is the new game from Paverson Games. So Ringyo I think it's I think it's called.

44:26 Now I don't know much about this game other than I have enjoyed both Distilled and Luthier. I have a good relationship with Paverson Games and they've said we'd like you to cover our new game but it's going to be not a public stream. It's going to be a Patreon only stream on that Friday and the reason for that is it's the only day that I was able to fit in to play it and Paverson Games need me to play it soon because that prototype then needs to go on to somebody else but it's too soon for that video to go public. So that will be a Patreon only stream on Friday the 5th of June I think it is and then at some point a week or two later I will be releasing that video to the public but that's I'm I'm learning it. I'm getting a demo of it from Richard at UK Games Expo and then I'm bringing a copy back with me. I've got a practice game planned for the Tuesday, another practice game planned for the Thursday, another practice game for the Friday afternoon and then the the private live stream on the Friday evening.

45:25 So that's all of that. So yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you Adam for joining us earlier on. Thank you to everybody for watching and uh we we'll see you all next week.