Top 10 Games that Were Ahead of Their Time

0:56 Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to the Dice Tower. I'm Tom Vasel.

0:59 I'm Zee Garcia.

1:00 I'm Matt Alisio. Hey, welcome to a top 10 list. Our top 10 games are sponsored by Board Game Bliss, where you can buy many games based on the games we're talking about. Maybe. Yeah, I don't know if a lot of these will be there. Maybe. But they also they have a do have a great selection of games. Check them out, and then play the games upon a mat that grips the table.

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2:14 hemisphere. It never sets. The sun never sets on the Icon. The sun rises and falls on the Icon of the Seas. That's the correct All right, today's top 10 list is about games that were ahead of their time. So talking about a game that came out and kind of was a trendsetter except it wasn't a trendsetter but later on we can look back and go ah, they knew what they were doing ahead of time. That was true. Yeah, so this I think this list could have gone in so many different directions. I think that we're going to have some different interpretations of what that means. We'll find out. I think that's going to be interesting.

2:50 I'm laying a lot of groundwork right here, folks.

2:53 I want to be clear. Well, first of all, I so many games I could have put on this list. Yeah. I didn't put a game so for example, I didn't put Magic the Gathering What? because it wasn't ahead of its time. No. Soon as Magic the Gathering came out, so did 8 million other collectible

3:08 is like Gandalf. It arrives precisely when it means to. Okay, that's good cuz I think most I think most of these fill that thing of they weren't the first of a glut. Yeah.

3:19 like a glut came later.

3:21 big ones are the Magic Gathering and the other one's Dominion where a ton of deck building games came out right after that.

3:26 Mhm. That's not what I'm talking about. At least I'm not. Yeah. Uh correctly.

3:30 that. I'll be doing a top eight today. Here's number 10, Dominion. Number nine, Magic. Well, I guess No, no, I agree with you. Those two I are I I eliminated for the same reason. I think we have some crossover. One of mine better be on Mike's list.

3:44 I think we'll have one crossover.

3:45 Better be on your list. I doubt it. Uh it better be your number one, frankly. I highly doubt it. Uh but I have one crossover, I think, on my whole list. all

3:54 a little it's not obscure, my list, but It's a lot of games.

3:59 some obscure There's a lot of games on here that I have not put on top 10 lists, I think, ever.

4:03 Be prepared. Be prepared to kindly and softly critique each other. Yes. And I was thinking how am I going to

4:12 Shut up, you idiot.

4:13 How am I going to order this, right?

4:15 you do it? What I did was I went in the year that it was released because by just by its very nature, the older something in is, the more ahead of its time it was. No, because

4:29 our time. No, that that that's not necessarily true because the stuff that followed it might have come earlier, too.

4:34 For the purposes of

4:35 the difference in years?

4:36 Yes, for the purposes of my list, I'm going to say I did. The fact that they're chronological is just a complete coincidence.

4:43 starting older going starting new?

4:45 I'm starting new going old. But then that means if you do a game from like, you know, 2006, I know there's nothing newer than 2006. Uh

4:54 Oh my goodness, Mike, that's going to eliminate so many games.

4:57 Well, my newest game is 2000. I have eliminated a lot for you. My newest is

5:01 That eliminates so many There's no Dominion? No. Uh Magic the Gathering could still be, but Let's find out. Here we go.

5:26 You know I'm crushing that.

5:28 Yeah.

5:29 I'm going to That was you? That was me.

5:30 Okay.

5:31 It got all the way to the top.

5:32 take your joy from that cuz we're about to crush your number 10.

5:35 No, my 10 is good.

5:37 It's unsailable. He likes to say.

5:38 It's unsailable. Cannot be assailed. My number 10 comes from 2012. This is the newest game on my list. Okay. To me,

5:47 14 years ago. This is what I'm saying was the first of the dual games based off of a game that already existed. Okay? I I did some research. I have no way to say people will likely come along and say, "Well, there was one that did it first." This is the one that I saw. My number 10 is Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small. Because this was Agricola for two players and it was not exactly the same game. It was based off of Agricola and it gave you some of the fields of Agricola, right? It had a lot of the things that you would recognize if you had played Agricola, but it was distinctly its own game and it was made specifically to play well at two players. I don't think Agricola at two is particularly you know, I think a lot of people like it at two, but I think this is, you know, purely designed as a two-player Agricola experience and now we have got tons of them, especially within the last 3 years, I would say. I actually think this is a good pick. It's a good pick. I agree. I think this is a good pick.

6:48 writing down Fist of Dragon but this is fine. I got plenty of other stuff. No, no, this is solid. I was thinking, are you going to say Seven Wonders Duel? No. No, no. It's this one. You're right. I mean, they did follow up a couple years later with Caverna.

6:59 Caverna, Cave vs. Cave.

7:00 oh, no, they had La Havre. They did La Havre. The La Havre: The Inland Port. I'm sure you've all played that one. Yeah, yeah. And then they had Cave vs. Cave. So, yeah. But yeah, this was a This was a thing and it didn't become a trend. Seven Wonders: Duel is what made it

7:13 That's what exploded.

7:14 uber popular.

7:15 Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, good. This is exactly the point of this list.

7:19 Awesome. I got one right.

7:20 You should leave. I'm done. It's a lot of pressure, you guys. Okay. Uh okay, my number 10. There's a lot of these kinds of games now. This uh my number 10 is from 1985.

7:35 it's too late. Wait, hang on. Let me see. This is not chronological. Mine are not chronological.

7:39 have any game from 1985, so it can't be chronological.

7:42 Um and it is one that now we see quite a bit, though they make them a little cuter, a little cozier now, this kind of game, a little more like family-friendly, I guess. This is Code 777. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Code 777 is the idea this idea of you know, you have things you can't see. So this was one of those games that a long time ago did that whole you can't look at your own things. You see everybody else's. I like that. And then also the ask a question and try to deduce which number is you're holding in front of yourself, which they do a lot now. There's you know, past like Turing Machine, that same designer has made like three of these. Yes, yeah. Right? It's that that idea of figure out what the secret thing is. They make them a little friendlier now, like I said, generally speaking, but Wendy, can you make that picture big again?

8:34 It's it's very popular right now. This is the original prototype, which I have at home. Wow. That's impressive.

8:41 Yeah, I've never seen that. Okay, cool. Yeah, definitely is handmade by somebody. Who couldn't afford a copy of 777. It's very expensive. I couldn't swing it. Anyway, that's my number 10, Code 777, a deduction game from the '80s. Interesting. All right, my number my number 10 is also from the '80s, although What do you what do you what do you have? Yeah, what do you '89. '89. I don't have one from '89. Do we have a chance? Uh I It's not on my list, but I wrote one down.

9:11 Oh, okay. This to me, this was way ahead of its time because the next time a game came out that was in this category was Heat.

9:19 2004. And the game in 2004 was Doom. The original, though, is HeroQuest. HeroQuest was way ahead of its time when it came to dungeon crawls. There was not many dungeon crawls at all. When I was a kid, this was the You played this or you played D&D, which you weren't allowed to do. So you played this. Yeah. Um and then there was nothing else. There was that garbage game called Dungeon. And then they came out with There was Warhammer Quest, which was a follow-up to this, and there was the space one, Space Hulk. Space Hulk, yeah.

9:48 but this was the de facto dungeon crawl game, and until Fantasy Flight came out with Doom, which then morphed into Descent.

9:55 Right.

9:55 And now one of these comes out every minute. While we've had this video, 10 dungeon crawls have been made, I feel. There's that many on on Kickstarter right now funding, yeah. It is pretty funny cuz when I went to BGG and looked at dungeon crawls and went back, there's 88 pages of dungeon crawls, and but but I would say I think it was like at page 85, I went before 2000. Wow.

10:20 You know, it was There's just so And again, a lot of it's also The tags are all right.

10:25 are tagged of hero, you know, Doom, this character, this character, but still, it is a very modern thing. If you're a dungeon crawl fan, you're living in the best time right now. Yeah. There's a zillion of them. But Or you had lived in the actual past when people went into dungeons. I guess that would be the best time.

10:41 That's true, when you actually could physically walk into a dungeon.

10:43 dungeon, yeah, yeah.

10:44 That would be the most immersive. This is the second best time to be into dungeons. Right.

10:49 The best thing about HeroQuest is that is that it is uh on this list. Yeah. Plus.

11:11 Eat the pizza. Eat the pizza.

11:13 Pizza, pizza. My What's the year? My nine I will. My number nine comes from 2011, and it's my hope of the three-way crossover.

11:23 Well, I just told you my earliest game was 2000.

11:26 Then you missed one, baby. I don't have anything that I'd knew. My newest game is 2005.

11:32 This was the one that I felt most confident about and now I feel like I'm going to get the most grief over.

11:36 You're not going to get grief about this.

11:38 is nothing but nice. My number nine IS RISK LEGACY. THIS IS THE FIRST

11:44 IDIOT.

11:45 THIS IS the first legacy game, but not only that, you didn't have a bunch of legacy games come right after it.

11:51 They're too hard to make, I think, right? That's the thing.

11:53 Also, they were pretty I feel like they thought this would bomb. I don't know if they thought it would bomb, but it certainly I don't think this game knew it was starting, no pun intended, a legacy.

12:05 Yeah, absolutely. Now, there's still not as many of these as you might think. I guess, but it's still I mean, it is certainly a big part of

12:12 fills the spoilers.

12:14 Yeah, yeah. It is. It fills the spoilers. We named it The Continent. It's a spoiler.

12:18 Now I know there's stickers. Yeah. Where's the icon of the seas? It's in blue. Yeah, I know. This was one of the first ones I thought of because this was clearly before the glut, right?

12:31 I would have picked this had I gone to newer games, for sure. This is This was a good Uh what was the year again? 2011. Wasn't that far ahead of the pandemic, was it? Wasn't the pandemic legacy come out '16, '17? No, it might be might be later than that. It might be I don't know. It's I know Zero came out in '20. So, figure 2 years for '18 and 2 years for '16.

12:54 Yeah, yeah, something like that.

12:55 Yeah, that's I mean, 5 years is a good pretty good period of time.

12:59 how many of these were made because I still see sealed copy of these, huh? 2015 was Pandemic Legacy. 15?

13:06 Okay, 2015. So, 3 years. But, I still see sealed copies of Risk Legacy show up all the time.

13:12 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it Yeah, I don't know that it was the hit that the other games were, but I mean,

13:18 No, no, no. That's That's not what we're talking about in this list. They don't have to be hits. They were not because a few of mine were not.

13:22 yeah. I have some games that are definitely not

13:24 this is a solid pick. This is a a a game that was Again, it it toes that line of this is Magic the Gathering thing. That like it began a new thing and then other people started to do it. Um which is hard to say oh it's ahead of its time for that reason, but it is the first of its kind for sure.

13:43 was yeah, the glut started with Pandemic, I think. Right?

13:49 Everybody now does one, it seems, and you're right that that nobody goes back and thinks oh Risk Legacy. They think the Pandemic games, you know, yeah. And then they're mostly co-ops, too, because of that, I think.

14:00 Yeah, I think so. This also introduced, and I'll be as non-spoiler as I can with this, but this also introduced the idea that there's more to a game than just what is shown to you. What do you mean? That That you're not even here.

14:17 you're talking about, but I don't know how you'd say it.

14:18 Which has now been done to death in games to the point where when I get a game, I'm like, "What else is The entire Exit line based on The entire Exit line is based on that. I don't understand, and you need to insert your point here.

14:32 Okay, put your fingers in your ears, folks.

14:34 No, no, no, I'm just saying this game taught me to look for more than than what they just show you at the beginning.

14:39 Yes, yes. It's more than meets the eye. Is it me? Yeah.

14:45 Yes. Okay, my number nine Where's my number nine? Uh my number nine is this one right here. It is from 1997, and it is a trick-taking game. Oh. It is my only trick-taking game. I think now you can kick a rock and two trick-taking games come out of there. Maybe three if you gave them enough time under the rock. You must follow the rock.

15:08 going to shout Hearts. It's whatever you say, I'm going to say Hearts. Yeah. This one is a weird trick-taking game. That's why I picked this one.

15:15 year? 1997. So you're saying like this is the first year

15:19 year that David and Goliath came out, but I'm not picking that. That one's a little more straightforward.

15:23 Mew? I was thinking it's a Mew. No, this is a game called Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

15:28 Oh.

15:29 This game right here which

15:30 THEY'RE THE SAME PERSON.

15:31 That's and it has been reprinted actually. Uh I forget what the Asian that has like an Asian theme.

15:37 Yeah. That it came out again under. Anyway, this is what I call again a weird trick-taking game. The thing that now if you present to people and you tell them this just came out, they will drool themselves to death. Mhm. It's a game in which the backs of the cards tell you what color the cards are. It's a game in which you can ask somebody else at the table to play a card for you to follow suit for you. Mhm. It's a game in which you have partners and you know each other's information kind of sort of. It has all these trappings of the weirdo trick-taking games that come out today. Mhm. Except they did it in '97 and nobody gave a crap in '97. You've probably not heard of this game. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting.

16:19 Now Oh, my gosh. You know, you give this you put Taiki Shinzawa's name on the cover and you call it something strange and we're done. Everybody's ordering a copy. Um And yes, this was reprinted as Tatsu, I think is what it was. You might have played that one. I don't know.

16:36 Tatsu. It's very delicious.

16:39 Yeah, I didn't put any trick-takers on my list. The closest I almost came was I almost put Tichu on there.

16:45 Ah. I also almost put Tichu on my list. Yeah, it's like the climbing shedding type games cuz that was the same reason cuz that one was '91. And now there's a gazillion of them but there was not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, there you go. That's my number nine, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. My number nine I was thinking along the lines of Z with his number 10, but I picked a different older game. Do you know what game that would be from 1971? Along the lines of Z?

17:09 Uh is it the Gems game? That calls up. Yes, it is what that is, but it's called Sleuth. Yeah, there you go. Oh, yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah.

17:18 we could put Sid Sackson and just throw his picture up on the screen and be like, "Done." Yeah, he was ahead of the curve, for sure. Yep. Sleuth is an old deduction game and it's actually still, amongst all the deduction games I've played, it might be in one of the most difficult to figure out, especially higher player counts.

17:35 counts, you're like, "Who has what card, where, why?" And you're just figuring out who has these different gems in different spots. I really like this game. I think it's ahead of its time because, honestly, there's very little deduction other than you know Mastermind and its clones.

17:48 What year was Sleuth? 71. 71. Okay, okay. This is like a setup for something later.

17:56 I had for my own edification. I, you know, I Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

18:00 This may come up again later, is all I'm saying. You're being You're being set up. Anyway, I this might be the only Sid Sackson game on my list, but he he could have easily been on the list for many things that he's done.

18:13 For sure. How many Sid Sackson games on your list, Mike?

18:15 One. I also have one. All right. We got a crossover. I almost I'm almost sure.

18:19 Well, we'll see. You You really don't know cuz he has some interesting stuff. That's my number nine, Sleuth.

18:39 My number eight is from 1997. Oh, wait, now you're Oh, I can't believe you missed this game. You can't I can't believe you missed a game. I missed I probably missed several games though.

18:51 so

18:52 1997.

18:53 Anyway, back to 1997. I got nothing on my list from there. I have a couple of things that were possibilities from '97.

18:59 This may not have been the first, but it was the most popular of fixed placement card games where you cannot rearrange the order of the cards in your hand. Oh, okay.

19:12 eight is Bonanza. Okay, I'm going to argue with you on this one.

19:15 You're wrong.

19:15 Get him. Ding ding. It's ahead of its time, but what else is doing this? Scout. There's

19:22 That's one game.

19:23 I'm telling you there's probably I could probably if you give me time, I can find 10 games within the last 5 years that have fixed placement cards. Fixed placement hand placement cards placement

19:34 common thing right now as a as a as a restriction to make card games have a little bit more spice.

19:40 Mhm. It's not hard to find a fixed placement card game now. This is the first game where you're allowed to hold the cards you can't rearrange them like this, but you but you can do this. It doesn't do anything, but you can do it.

19:54 It would be very actually unhelpful since the cards have to I don't care. It's the first game that allowed you to do that.

20:00 brought about the great bean renaissance.

20:02 Right, and that was the other thing is that this was the etymology of the phrase, you can't move your beans. That never was said before this game. Now you hear it like on every other Tik Tok, right? You can't move your beans. Is this the game where that I think you mean a hill of beans. Well, that's a variant on the phrase, but this is you know, a family friendly place. Yeah.

20:24 Who touched

20:25 play the old What's a bean game with Oh yeah, don't spill the beans.

20:28 Don't spill the beans.

20:29 Yeah, that was based on this. It was. You can't you can't move the beans you

20:33 Don't spill my future list. Don't spill the beans. Yeah, so Look, yeah, there there's a question does it need to start a trend? I think especially in the last few years I mean

20:41 doesn't need to start a trend. It doesn't need to be a trend. It doesn't need to start it. This is tenuous in that, but I think there's enough of these fixed placement card games that especially some high profile ones that uh And I think it's not even I disagree that it even has to start a trend no matter how far down the road. Just something that we see more of now.

20:59 Right. Well, that's what I meant. I mean Yeah, I don't think it's a trend. I I would not call the hand placement thing a trend like by any means. But this one did it a long time ago. There wasn't necessarily something that caught on right away, but now there's a few and you go back and go, "Wow, this game was in '97." And I will say

21:16 that's valid enough. For Mike's list, that's valid. And I do think and I'm not No joking here. I think a lot of times now when someone plays a card game like that, they say it's the Bonanza thing. That's how you shorthand teach the rules to people. It's like it's got that Bonanza thing where you can't rearrange. And it's not to put you down. I mean, on this list I would not say it nowadays cuz I assume that 99% people I play with have never heard of Bonanza.

21:38 You got to play with real gamers, Tom. Quit playing with noobs, wannabes, and fakers. Don't move your bean.

21:46 Some of us here dice I love you all. We'll all teach you Bonanza. I love how you assume these people watching are not gamers. Yeah.

21:54 might be. Yeah. No. No, when I say uh worker placement uh IP uh ratchet style mechanisms, they know what I mean. They all know what I mean.

22:05 Yeah. Yeah. The ratchet. Is it me yet?

22:08 It's you. It's My number eight is a game from 1994. What? Let me check. Oh, '94. It is a game

22:15 a '93, but I'm not a '94. uh Is this the Alex Randolph game? It's an Alex Randolph game. No, not Alex Randolph. Who am I thinking of? Sid Sackson. Sid Sackson, yeah.

22:26 Oh, this is your Sid Sackson game. I think it's I think it's Sid Sackson. Yeah, let's go with that. Wait, from '90 what? '94. One of his later games.

22:35 Oh, then it's definitely not. We don't have the crossover on that. Mine's much later.

22:38 What is '94? I'm the boss? Yes. He is the boss.

22:42 are. Is it the game? Yeah, that's the game, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm the boss is the game. All right.

22:50 So sit uh um I'm the boss is did this whole thing where you were like it had this free form negotiation. It like this feels like some of like Exploding Kittens games, like games from that company, not games from not Exploding Kittens the game. That's just a card game.

23:11 Right.

23:11 But that company does a lot of goofy stuff. Okay. Uh free-wheeling stuff that I feel can kind of trace some of that back to this game. Now, this game's theme is very serious. It's not hitting each other with clubs or chucking up a burrito or anything. You're making business deals with like, you know, people in suits and whatever, but the way you do it in this game is very rambunctious. It's this idea of, you know, you're in the in the meeting room shouting at people and being like, "I'll give you $2 million if you come to the table." And somebody else is like, "No, you're denied. You're on a business trip. I'll deal with you." And you're like, "What? No, this and that." And somebody over there is like, "It's my deal now. I play three of these cards and now you have to deal with me." And let's make some millions. It has that feeling. That's the energy in the game.

24:00 And that's super popular now at like games at Target.

24:04 Mind you, right? The reason this game wouldn't fly right now in a place like Target is because of the theme.

24:10 Right. Not because of the gameplay. You take it away

24:14 this to something dumb,

24:16 Mhm. it'd be hot.

24:18 Yeah, yeah. You know? But it was just I I feel like this was way ahead of of its time back in '97 or whatever.

24:23 I agree, but I would agree with almost any game you say from Sid Sackson on that regard.

24:27 Yeah, he was a trendsetter, for sure. So, anyway, my number number eight from 1994, I'm The Boss. My number eight is from 1986.

24:36 Here we go.

24:37 Oh, oh, oh, oh. I could have a crossover with you. Let's see. Well, nowadays, Mike is always constantly and Chris and Wendy like to play these games that take three, four, five hours. Uh this was the first game to do that as far as I can tell in a Euro style game. To me, this is the first true heavy Euro game from Karl-Heinz Schmiel. This is Die Macher. Mhm. Die Macher was one of these big heavy Euro games that was way ahead of its time. So, you're just you're meaning like the Lacerda type games. Yeah, I think so. Like this game again, if if you brought this out now, I'd be like, "Oh, when does this come out?" 90 80 86 I would not have guessed.

25:13 Yeah. There was nothing like this back then and I I looked to see what other games came out in '86 and they were like a bunch of Ameritrash, really. That was it. There's nothing else much that came out this year. I think Fury of Dracula the first edition came out in

25:26 that were coming out on the other side of the pond were like Labyrinth. Yeah. Labyrinth came out in '97 or I'm sorry, '87 or whatever. So, it's like around that time is that's the kind of game that was coming out or American style and then this monstrosity shows up.

25:40 And honestly, I remember I remember the first time I was like, "I want to learn Die Macher." Someone was like, "Okay, we're going to have I'll teach you at the convention, but you better have 4 hours." I was like, Mhm. "4 hours?"

25:49 read up on your German

25:50 That's right.

25:51 German politics.

25:52 a war game. It takes 4 hours? Right. Nowadays, it kind of fits in with a lot of other games. They've also released a somewhat streamlined version. And this game, while it was somewhat popular at the time and people talked about it. In fact, it uh it's It was number one, right?

26:07 one No, it's the number one game entered on BoardGameGeek. It's It's It's entry one. They have an ID number, right? Number two. But this game never became It's not in the top 100 or anywhere up in there.

26:17 No. I know. Yeah, it's Tigris & Euphrates is number two. No. Is it?

26:21 Yeah. That was the second one I inputted. You guys are huge nerds. Both of you.

26:25 Yes. Nerds. And then you're wondering if you're talking to a nerd. Of course you are. But But I But I think this game again, it didn't spawn a pile of these games after it, but had it come out now, if this game was designed by Lacerda, people would be like, they would be losing their minds.

26:41 Yeah. I want to argue with you, but I think you may have a point there. All right. You may not.

26:46 it because you're not going to take one.

26:58 And stretching for the fight.

27:00 This is going to be a good one. Is it going to be a good one, Mike?

27:02 It's a good one.

27:02 What's the year?

27:03 What's you got? This is from 1991. Oof. That's the no good games come out that year. You're correct, cuz this game uh I have not played. How can I put it on my list? I can put it on my list.

27:16 Illegal move.

27:17 Not at all.

27:18 Yellow card. Why have I not played it?

27:20 Judge. Why have I not played it? Because it sounds terrible. But you put it on your list.

27:24 seven is from what I can find. This is a weird thing. How you you put a game on your list you can't you can't talk about you haven't played it.

27:32 can 100% talk about. Have I played it? Probably.

27:34 Have I played it? If you If you haven't played it, you've at least played the game that this was the card game re-implementation of. From what I can tell, this is the first one that it specifically says re-implements the bait the the the big daddy game. This is Car Wars, the card game. Okay, you are actually 100% correct. I have played Oh, wait. The card game. Yes. Oh, no. I played this one. I haven't played Car Wars. I played this game.

28:04 what I can tell, this is the first one where it was base game colon the card game. This is the first game with a colon. No, this is the first one that specifically in BGG that I could find says it re-implements Car Wars.

28:20 that BGG's re-implementation thing is often bonkersly incorrect.

28:26 Tenuous tenuous at best, right?

28:28 Bonkersly incorrect. Um because there was an old like Life the Card Game, but it wasn't like it wasn't like a full release. You had Cluedo the Card Game, but it wasn't really re-implementing Clue or Cluedo. This seems to be the one the first one I could find that was specifically a card game re-implementation of a bigger board game. There's probably other ones, but yeah.

28:50 Car This actually became for a while more popular I I actually the first time I played this, it was I played Cow Wars the card game.

29:00 infinitely more intact. Cat like meow?

29:02 No, no, cow. Moo. I walked into a a game store. I remember where it was. It was in Allentown, Pennsylvania. I walked in looking for a game. I saw Cow Wars. I was like, that's got to be the game I get. Yeah. This was back in 2002 or something. And I bought it and they're like, this is compatible with Car Wars. I was like, wow. Then I played it and I thought, hmm. Cuz it's Car Wars is you have cars that you drove around a table and then shot each other. This Car Wars the card game you just have cars and you're just playing stuff on each other. What was Cow Wars? Explain Cow Wars.

29:32 Cow Wars is the same thing as cars. They just replaced the car with a cow.

29:35 And they ran around and shot at each other?

29:37 No, because again, they only did the card game. Yeah. Oh.

29:40 So you have the cow in front of you with the armor on it and stuff. So I did more research this specific one than on any of the other ones because I was

29:48 You knew it was weak sauce.

29:49 No, because I knew I was looking cuz I cuz right now, I was thinking what are the trends in board games right now? And definitely one of them is one of them is this the card game, right? Whatever the game is the card game.

30:02 Okay.

30:03 So one of the earlier ones actually was Alhambra the card game.

30:06 Well.

30:06 That was only a couple of years after this. Uh you know what? Alhambra the card game came out before Alhambra. So Oh, interesting.

30:13 call it that now. I see. Okay.

30:16 Alhambra didn't even pick that one then. Yeah, Alhambra used to be called something else when it was only a card game. I see. And then they changed

30:22 '90s I want to say. Then he added tiles and with that came walls.

30:27 Walls, right.

30:28 that Alhambra. That became more popular than whatever the original card game was called and then he went back and now they call that the card game.

30:36 Interesting.

30:37 That came first. I'm I'm I'm I know I played this. Cow

30:40 cow, c o w, cow. He just He made this up in his head.

30:43 No, I KNOW I PLAYED SOMETHING with cows cuz I gave this game a six, by the way, which is pretty nice.

30:49 with actual cows? Could that be the confusion?

30:51 on a farm in a fever state? Why is there not a Well, I looked up cows and there's a lot of weird games here. Cow party, cow pile, catapults. Um oh, cowards. That's pretty funny. No, I don't Okay, sure.

31:04 I played a version of this with cows, for sure. Well, this was one that I was going to put on here just because I I had hoped it would evoke this kind of discussion and it has. So, for that reason alone, I'm glad I put Car Wars, the card game, as my number seven. Why not? Um my number seven is my newest game, tied with my newest game on the list from 2005. It is a game that came out from Z-Man Games. It feels to me like it was ahead of its time. Uh that time has come and gone, by the way, in my opinion. I'm trying to think what was happening in This is a social deduction-ish kind of game. Okay. Which I could now almost describe 05. Is this that Okay.

31:51 One with three different teams and Bob? Bob, certainly, yeah. Bob's in it. Bob wants to die. Yeah, what was that game called? Why am I just It has two words in the title. One of them is Shadow. The other one is Hunter.

32:03 Shadow Hunters, right?

32:04 Dang it, he got it. Um Shadow Hunters is has secret uh identities. Yes. And you are trying to both figure out who's on your team, ideally, but then also just blowing each other up. And you have secret things you are attempting to do. There's teams, like like Tom said. To me, going back now, this almost feels like Blood on the Clock Tower, the card game, or the dice game, or something like that. Battle Cattle, that's what it was called. Thank you. Thank you, I remember now. Battle cattle.

32:38 Battle cattle. Yeah, how could you forget? So stupid.

32:40 know there was cows in it. Oh look, two people got it. Battle cattle maybe? Oh, it's Battle cattle, baby.

32:47 know what you rated it. Please look up Battle

32:49 If this game is rated as an eight or higher, um you're no longer the boss.

32:54 Gave it a five. Okay, you're okay. Um anyway, yeah, this is this is a good one because this definitely came This was right on the heels My argument here would be I almost considered like Bang. I think this came right on the heels of Bang. They might have been developed simultaneously.

33:09 adjacent. It's Well, you would like it. It's from Japan. Yes, I've heard of this game, actually. I might have played it back in the day. I don't remember. It's from Takamasa Jinzawa. I played it. I do remember that Bob just wants to die in this game.

33:20 Bob does want to die. You remember that. Um You know, it says when you I think it's I think it says when you're Bob and you get killed, scream as loudly as you can and you win. Something to die for.

33:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why not? I like your rules. Anyway, yeah, it's it's it's a funky game. It was definitely ahead of its time. Nothing else quite like it was around. Now, maybe not now, but you know, a few years ago, these social deduction with a twist games were everywhere. They finally started adding components to these games. Where for a while, they were Theater of the Mind.

33:51 Mhm. Then they added components, right? Like the Night of the Ninja is card driven. Uh you know, they added a little more. And then the idea of being you know, Two Rooms and a Boom had that idea of not just are you hidden, but you're hidden and on a team.

34:07 Right. And this game did it back in '05.

34:10 Mhm. So, I I think it was you know, ahead of its time. So, my number seven, Shadow Hunters. And you can clearly read the title right there.

34:17 Just like a Shadow Hunters.

34:18 Just like a death metal band.

34:19 see it right there. Shadow

34:20 2005 you said? They were just They were just printing all kinds of weird games. If you read it backwards, it's a demonic message. It said Bob was

34:28 seven is my weirdest pick. But I I feel like it was a game ahead of its time. It's designed by the same designer as the last game I mentioned in the marker, Charles Karl-Heinz Schmuhl. And this one is way less known and way rarer. And this game is called Ala Carte. Oh, the flipping game? Yes, this was on my short list. Was it really? Yeah. And I'll tell you why because this modern trend of stupid dumb games that people like and we do like them. I did not realize this is this is

34:56 a weird This is like the original I bet. This is the original but yeah. This was on my short list. I did not realize he was the designer. I didn't either. I I can Yeah, I didn't consider it but it makes sense. Oh yeah, what was the year on this one? This was You have the whole thing you flip it and try to catch a thing. They make all Yeah, this now would be deluxeified to oblivion on Kickstarter.

35:14 You had these little shakers that had good good spices that you needed to pour in your thing and also white You got to do it yourself. They were weird shapes. They wouldn't come out cuz they You had to shake it and then have a few come out and then also everyone's like to flip something and I was like when I first played I was like this is amazing. It's for kids. They're like it's not for kids. It's for adults. Oh, cuz I actually played this with my kids and they were confused by the amount of rules that were in this game. But this idea today if something like this came out people would be like 200,000 dollar Kickstarter idea. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Although What a weird pick for the cover. Yes, clearly the original German release of this I think.

35:54 I did tell I did tell Andrew I said when it when possible pick the oldest cover you can find. There we have it. I I've never seen this one but I like this game so much I went out of my way to find a copy of it. The first Essen I went to I was like this got to be here somewhere. Did you?

36:08 Yeah, I did. And the redone cover was like pretty nice looking. It's very pretty. You know what? That's what happened. They reprinted this in 20 years ago. Yes. AND I WAS LIKE WOW, A REPRINT OF AN OLD GAME. THAT REPRINT NOW is old

36:21 older than most of some of you watching. It's very pretty. There's a lot of young people watching apparently too. It's a good components too, yeah.

36:42 All right, so my number six is coming from 1987, all right? And um I thought that cooperative games was a a good thing to go with here because the Gloomhaven didn't come till later. Much later. quite a bit later. So, then the question becomes

36:59 is this? 87. So, then the question becomes which one are you going to choose?

37:04 disagree on this choice because I also considered this, and yeah, but go ahead.

37:08 Go ahead, Mike. Go ahead. We're about to wreck you.

37:10 My first thought was maybe I'll go with Lord of the Rings from Knizia, but it wasn't the the first. And this one probably wasn't the first, either, but a lot of From what I saw, this is what a lot of people consider to be the first cooperative game. It was not.

37:26 Not cooperative. It's listed as cooperative.

37:29 Yeah, but okay. Have you played this game? I didn't play the original. So, is this like Is this like a top 10 games Mike hasn't played?

37:36 It doesn't matter. I've played like the 17 different editions of Arkham Horror. They're all the same thing. Here's where I think I think I I considered the Arkham Horror thing, too, but I didn't put it on the list because if you look at this game, this was not ahead of its time. This was a pretty bad game that when he remade it as a second edition, it suddenly took off.

37:57 I'm going to get Richard Launius on the phone, and we'll see if he agrees.

37:59 going to ask the designer what he thinks, obviously.

38:02 I put cooperative, and just just to save myself, I put {slash} Cthulhu cuz that's another thing.

38:08 Yeah. You can You know, this was probably

38:10 Okay. Oh, see, if you had led with that, I would have to I have to back down on that. Do it, Mike. Pretend you did.

38:15 I have it I have both written. I'm going to be honest with you, but

38:18 thing works because When Do you remember the first time you heard of Cthulhu? I was reading HP Lovecraft back in the 30s. I don't know. No, I have no idea.

38:29 Did you read it before you heard before you got into gaming? No, I did not. I know for sure Arkham Horror is where I first heard it.

38:36 I had heard of HP Lovecraft through reading Stephen King. I had heard of Yes, I think you're right.

38:42 a lot of you know, he mentions Lovecraft. And I was like, oh, I don't know who that is, you know, cuz it was like I was reading stuff from like the 50s and 60s, but not from the 30s, you know?

38:52 And and sometimes he

38:53 They didn't even have English, you know?

38:54 Right. Sometimes like if you were reading something about Poe, it would maybe mention that they were too. So, I knew I was familiar with the name, but it was really in gaming that I became familiar most with that whole mythos thing, right? And so, look, you put it for Cthulhu if you want, it's probably a better argument for this list, but I also had it down there for cooperative because cooperative is, you know, a huge

39:16 I considered it as actually, but I've never played it, so I tell you what my biggest beef with this game is, that they wrote the word board game as one word on the cover. That's true. Well, you don't have your Google search set up for both?

39:28 I don't like that, okay? That's two words, board game.

39:33 Right. Gen Con would like to call bothering me, Arkham Horror. Anyway, my number six is uh from 1993. Oh, wait, let me check. Oh, I have a 1993 game, but I doubt it's the same one.

39:47 This is a Reiner Knizia game. Oh, it is the same one. Well, wait, maybe. Later in my list, we'll find out. Really interesting. Okay, so this is the first game that has the ratchet mechanism.

39:57 the word ratchet. And you got him. Tooth and nail is uh This is from '93, people. 1993.

40:05 I had considered this. This is the first game that had that one-way track thing where you can move forward as far as you want to, but you can't back up.

40:13 Mike is losing on the Knizia in here.

40:15 I agree. Also, just every other front.

40:18 I don't have a single Knizia game on my list.

40:20 No trick-taking games. No Knizia games. I try to be true to the list. Now, if I had thought of that No no cooperative games. If I had thought of this, I like it's a really good pick cuz I Thank you. Tom also thinks that.

40:33 have known right away that this is the first one to do it, but I certainly would have thought this got to be one of the earliest, right?

40:38 I think it's the first. I don't know if it is or isn't, but 93, man, that's ancient.

40:45 Why is out of the box the publisher to make it? I can't that can't be right. I don't know, man. I I don't want to doubt I never saw a version before this version.

40:53 this is the first English language version.

40:56 Maybe that's what it is. Okay. He put it out at he made 300 handmade copies that came out of the Tokyo Game Market back in '92. That's right. Tokyo Game Market didn't exist then. Tokyo wasn't around. I got you. I got you about a half hour. Anyway, Tutankhamun is, in my opinion, I think the the first one that did that, and it's such a cool mechanism.

41:16 It is. It wasn't everywhere suddenly, but now you see it every now and then, and it's still one of those mechanisms that when you say it, I anyway, always go like ooh, okay. I I like that thing. Keep going. That's true. He didn't call it the ratchet, but

41:31 he called it whatever the German word for ratchet is. I just can't ever remember that. I like to say das ratchet.

41:37 Das ratchet. I don't know. And 1993 is ancient, okay? 1993, if you were born in '93 or or or below, I mean like it's below for older. Uh then, you're an old person now. All right, my number six is from 1989. All right. And is designed

41:55 1989. world-famous designer Klaus Teuber. This is Are you sure it's '89 and not '88? It's '88, sorry. All the crossovers are happening over there. You're right. So, this is a game that sounds like it's a war game. It is not a war game. This is Barbarossa. You like Man, this game shows up on so many of your lists. That's amazing. No way. He hasn't mentioned it in a while. That not that cover. No, no, no. I chose that cover.

42:25 I don't think he I don't think he mentions this game.

42:26 Every third list.

42:28 Okay, Barbarossa is a a game in which you are modeling clay and you get a thing and you have to make it, but you don't want people to guess it too early and you don't want people to guess it too late.

42:37 thing you're saying? It's kind of like a precursor

42:40 It was an early party game. In fact, it Predict it they used to call it, but Actually, if you want to find a game that's like a 90% copy of this, look for a game called Cluzzle. Mhm. Um from North Star Games where they just They made it simpler, basically.

42:52 Yeah. And this game has some weirdness to it. You stick arrows in the pieces and show that But

42:58 Yeah. Party games at this point, other party games that were going around were all word-based, just guess things. That's almost always what it was. Guess this categories or I don't know all I don't know that The early '90s, late '80s had a lot of party games coming out. Trivial Pursuit was reigning supreme. And so games of that category, this one I think stood out as something completely different, even though it didn't really take off. This game has kind of died. I haven't heard it I haven't played it.

43:23 No, no, this is very dead and no one cared, I think.

43:27 I'm used to seeing is more of like the Yeah, the red the reddish cover that's taller, yeah. Okay. Yeah, but I mean, I considered it. All right, cool. That's my number six.

43:50 All right, my number five um is, I think, a precursor to what Z had. You had a 2005 game, I think.

43:59 Are you specifically assaulting me right now?

44:01 I am specifically assaulting you. 1986. To What was my pick? Shadow Hunters.

44:07 Wait a minute.

44:08 Close your eyes. I know what the game is because I looked at 1986 cuz Werewolf, mafia. This is social deduction. This is the earliest of the social deduction games. You're going in teams.

44:19 problem with your lies. Um it's not a lie. I don't I think I think this date is made up. I really do. Well, it was apparently started by

44:29 is a game that just kind of has come into being. Maybe the etymology that I've read is that it was a psychology professor who had used it as a model for his class that then got in Russia. And I've heard it was Russian.

44:43 Maybe it was Russian, yeah. Maybe it was a Russian game.

44:44 That No, it was a school though, so it couldn't have been in Russia. It's a joke. We just lost three Russian viewers. I was kidding.

44:53 Well, I don't Yeah, I didn't pick this because Well, lots of party games do this. Also, because I feel like it's public It's like me picking hearts for trick taking. I kind of felt the same way, I got to say. This feels uh um what's the word for something that's available to everyone? Public domain. It feels public domain to me a little bit, yeah.

45:12 think it's public domain It's considered to be public domain now because it has been basically taken and and kind of utilized so much. I mean, shoot, you watch The Traitors right now, that's this.

45:22 Yeah, yeah.

45:22 Well, that's If you If you watch The Traitors and you want to know how to play Werewolf, do everything they do not. I was never I had to quit watching it. I've never seen people play Werewolf so badly.

45:33 but they don't have a background in it, I They don't They don't have a background in nothing. They're What is The Traitors? It's a show that's been Actually, it was a show in Britain for years and now it's come over to the US. I think it's on their third season.

45:45 of it?

45:45 Uh Alan [ __ ] I think. And he's amazing as a host. He's really does a good job bringing theme into this. And then they go out and find basically Kim Kardashian type people

45:54 zero sum game. Oh my word, and they are all so stupid.

45:59 Werewolf. Yeah, yeah. But with incredible production values and they throw them in a castle in Scotland and you know what I mean? Also the game doesn't make sense. They'll have them do a task for no reason at all.

46:10 Yeah, they have them well, they'll have them do like challenges so that they can get like they're exempt from the vote that night or something.

46:16 Okay, okay, yeah. That is really dumb. It doesn't matter if you're exempt from the vote. They're always going to vote for the wrong people. If they were good at the game, it would be a short show and they wouldn't like that. My number five is the traders.

46:25 I hate the traders so much.

46:27 I understand your arguments. I wasn't trying to get away on a technicality. I thought that this was a legit pick. It's it's tough because I No, it is it is, but I also say it comes from here, but it's kind of like Liar's Dice a little bit. Like Richard Borg put it to rules, but it kind of existed before that.

46:41 No, I get it. It's a I mean, again, social deduction became a big thing and now it's sort of calmed down, but any of these social deduction games from the 80s or 90s or early 2000s were a little bit ahead, you know? The one I picked I thought was a little weirder with the the teams, the rules. There's like, you know, Shadow Hunters has this thing where you give somebody a card and they take it and read it. And then they give it back to you and they'll like lose a life point or something.

47:09 Right, but they have to

47:10 the two of you now know something about, you know, Right.

47:14 else knows until you have this like suspenseful thing. I thought that one did weird stuff that felt ahead of its time, but I get it, yeah.

47:21 Yeah. Okay, my number uh six five. My number five came out in um in 2005. Um it is kind of to me feels a little bit like what Fantasy Flight Games ended up doing with their living card game idea, which to be fair, I then looked up and it's only like 3 years later. But they're really kind of unrelated things. This took trading card games and went we'll just tell you what you're buying. And that was sort of like the

47:57 The History Channel. TriKing. I don't know.

48:00 Wait, are you putting Yeah, baby, anachronism. ANACHRONISM. TRIKING, I GUESS, YEAH. SO, Anachronism is this trading card game where a pack, well, what you play with, is just five cards. It's a warrior and five pieces of equipment or lore or training or whatever, right? You're going to be moving around this grid and then rolling dice and attacking each other. That's the game. It takes five minutes to play. 10 minutes tops. Um but it is not random. When you buy a character, you buy, you know, William Wallace, Mhm. you know what you get. You get William Wallace, you get his sword, you get his horse, and you get these other two pieces of inspiration or whatever.

48:41 almost taken aback by that. I was like, where's the rare card? Right. There is no such thing.

48:46 What year is this? 05. So, this is before Blue Moon? Blue Moon was 04, I want to say, but it doesn't but but you don't buy Blue Moon was like, here's an expansion. This came with waves. There was like Yeah. wave two, wave three. This is basically a trading card game where it's not random. That's the main thing.

49:08 it. Yeah. And then eventually, FFG did the living card game thing where they're like, it's a it's a trading card game, but we're selling it to you not randomly. You can just buy this and you get it all. You don't have to hunt them down. This did that a little bit ahead of its of that time, and I thought it was an interesting experiment. Now, it failed miserably, but it was I think because this game was really expensive, you know. Um and I think a lot of people didn't care that much about thematically Right. taking Beowulf against whoever else, you know, having these historical figures fight. But it felt ahead of its time, especially now in hindsight, when you look at how well the FFG ones have done by not milking you for randomness. they can still get your money in other ways. Oh, they'll get your money. Even if they don't have to like chase something down. So, I thought that was really interesting.

50:00 Anyway, Anachronism, my number five pick. My number five is Crossover Z, Tutankhamun. Okay, I'm done. Everything he said.

50:06 Yes, sir. Tutankhamun.

50:08 That's two kinesis to zero. I It's embarrassing.

50:12 I'm not I'm not ashamed. Should be. That's my number five. Everything he said. I demand you unhinge your jaw at once.

50:31 I am deeply perturbed. Nice set of teeth, though. Man. It's like bring. Hm. All right. My

50:41 actually. What's that? Felt like an insult. I hope that he makes the reverse of that. And it's just like a bunch of like it looks like a white picket fence. And it's like I like mowing. And he hits a like a a giant number one or whatever.

50:52 Yeah. Huh? And then the mouth whoop closes. And we zoom out and it's Tom. That's very Monty Python-esque, actually.

50:59 a lot of a lot of Terry Gilliam going on right there. Terry Gilliam. My number uh four is Brazil. Oh. That's a banger. All right. My number four is from 1981.

51:10 I have a look at that. 1981. Nope, I got nothing there. I have something from 1981. And my 1981 game is something that I'm putting down as uh what I think was one of the earlier, if not the earliest, story-driven narrative games. Okay? And those right now, and within the last five years, maybe even a little bit longer, are a huge element of the board gaming hobby. Our story-driven narrative games. How do you not have this, Tom?

51:38 all the way back to '81, you got Sherlock Holmes, Consulting Detective. Mhm. It's two against one, baby. Sherlock Holmes it is. I deduce a winner. That's That's not a bad That's not a bad call, man.

51:51 Yeah, so this is Yeah, look. I mean, it's it's all about the narration, the story, the the you know, and that's I still get caught up in this map. When I play the game, I'm like, "Forget this. I just want to look at this map and see what

52:02 Yeah, who lives where, right? You know what I mean? Who are the people living in the

52:06 Does Moriarty actually live on this map?

52:10 Right. Where's the nearest Nando's? That's what I want to know.

52:13 Mhm, they got that sauce that's delectable. You know you can buy that. I saw they make these weird squishy bottles. Have you seen the bottles? No, we have the regular sauce.

52:22 I do like Nando's, though. the peri-peri sauce. We have it in our home right now. Anyway, Sherlock Holmes, Consulting Detective, this was the one that kind of came to mind because really a it's a big part of the board gaming hobby right now are these narrative I mean, Ryan Laukat has definitely made a huge name for himself making games that are like this.

52:40 is Moriarty. He is Moriarty, yes, absolutely.

52:43 great great grandson. Mhm. So, is he evil? I don't get it. Well, secretly, he seems pretty nice on the Moriarty doesn't come across as evil unless you get Fair, that's true. You're You're speaking You're spitting that truth.

52:54 that truth. I don't want to say too much more because I feel like maybe it'll come up again. I don't know. That's my number four. Well, not on my list, anyway.

53:00 It might. That's your number four. My number four is the precursor to Jackbox and all Jackbox things. It came out in 2002. Wait, it's a precursor to Jackbox? Is it Jackbox? Not Jackbox, but it was a game. It was an electronic game.

53:14 Okay, I was going to say. Maybe somebody here bought at a Toys "R" Us for $2. I could try and guess it.

53:18 know? No? It was a central thing and then literally remotes, clickers, that you could sit around a living room and click. It's called Remote Possibilities. I guarantee you've never heard of it. Oh, jeez. No, I have not.

53:30 looks like a That looks like an intercom you put in a baby's room. Yes, sir. It could also do that. Also looks like a CD player. It It You could put eight tracks I have a I actually have a CD player, a Sony CD player that looks almost exactly like that.

53:43 Yeah, a Discman, yeah. Uh a Discman, yeah. Um no, this was a this was Ow. Mhm. You would fire this bad boy up, it would make crazy electronic sounds, it would it would ask a question

53:55 Yeah. and you had to buzz in with this thing.

53:58 Mhm. And then answer that question. Now, did it tell you who was the first to buzz in?

54:02 Yeah, yeah, it would like Yeah, that's pretty good tech. somebody would do it and it's like, okay, it's it's that one, right? Um That's the bid, they're connected. Those things are all connected to the main unit there. 2002, that's a long time ago.

54:16 a long time ago, yeah.

54:17 So Did it work well?

54:18 It worked okay. I mean, the screen is like one of those, you know one line

54:23 Yeah, one line of text with the giant pixels.

54:26 to still have that? No, it's been a long, long time. Um Does anyone in chat have this? I bet you can go on eBay. Are you intrigued? I have never heard of it. I figured this was one you had never heard of. Like I said, no no joke, I bought this at a Toys "R" Us for a buck or two. Yeah, it was like clearance. It was like they used to have all sorts of weird things like this. So, uh yeah, this is one I used to actually own. When I finally came across it, I was like, oh yeah, okay, sure, this is making it on my list.

54:55 four D cell batteries. Probably, who knows. It was probably it was probably a battery hog, you know. Anyway, there you go. And obviously, when I say Jackbox, I mean electronic Jackbox now, not You Don't Know Jack, the the you know, the video games. I mean, what they're doing now. Uh anyway, my number four, Remote Possibility.

55:13 Ass, but it was terrible. All right. My number four, well, now we're getting into games that are much more well known. From 1983, you could make an argument that a game that was almost simultaneously um developed a year or two before or after, which is Fury of Dracula, could fit on this list, but this is Scotland Yard. I considered it. Scotland Yard, it just it's one of those games that's way ahead of its time. I remember playing this, I I this for my 13th birthday, and it blew my mind that this game existed. I was just like, "Wow, what is this? You can go anywhere you want. You It was a team of people against one person." Like a year later, they came out with Clue The Museum Caper. And then apparently they stopped publishing these one verse many games for the next two decades cuz where were they? Now we're seeing more of them. It's still not a very huge genre, although people know whatever the modern version of Fury of Dracula was and or I I don't know. It is the biggest one likely, but this game but it also This game was an early game and basically you could do what you want. You were moving on a board with tickets and things like that and that I had never seen a game like this in my life. It blew my mind. So that's my number four.

56:22 Yeah, it was on my short list. Mr. X, catch him. My number three is from 19 and 63 and it is my requisite Sid Sackson game for this list.

56:45 63? 63. Well, that can only be one. That's uh um It can only be one. Acquire? Acquire, yeah. Yeah. I was going to say Twixit, but no. Yeah, yeah. So Acquire, I mean, it it it was tile laying, it was or tile placement, it was stock market manipulation. It's like the version I used to have.

57:05 Yeah. Honestly, I feel like Well, this version was in every thrift shop for 20 years straight. Sure, sure, sure. You could anyway. You could come out with this today Well, there was a new edition that Renegade put out not that long ago, just a couple of years ago.

57:18 was a copy of the That was almost a straight copy of the Avalon Hill one that came out in early 2000.

57:24 That's true. I'm saying this particular box is bookshelf thing you could find all over The 3M printing was everywhere, yes.

57:31 yeah. But this one this is one that you could you could come out today. Like literally. Like this game had was a precursor of so many other games.

57:40 like the the Rome one, right? In many ways. Which from from Arcane Wonders.

57:47 Oh, Foundations of Rome.

57:48 Foundations of Rome. This kind of feels a little like Foundations of Rome.

57:51 with that board and putting the things down there and yeah, yeah. But yeah, like like we've said, Sid Sackson was Way ahead of his time.

57:58 ahead of his time and and this is certainly one of the first ones that came to my mind for this list. And they've been some really nice additions, too. So, I mean, you can still like I said, wasn't this part of the World Series of Board Gaming recently?

58:11 It still is. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's crazy.

58:15 it's a good one. I considered it. It even though it it was quote unquote ahead of its time, there were other stock market games coming out around this time, which is why I slightly disqualified it but in my for me. But but I would it's a great game, so. My number three is a crossover with Mr. Mike Delisio. This is Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective.

58:37 Yep. And I'll tell you what I wrote down next to it that I thought it actually kind of inspired or crossed over with now is the those murder by mail thing.

58:46 yeah. That thing is so hot right now. This idea of subscribing to a service, they send you a box of crap and you you figure out the who done it. You call a number, you put together clues. That's kind of what this is, right?

59:02 I agree. They took out the worst part of the game, which was Sherlock Holmes. Sherlock Holmes being a snob. Nobody needs that.

59:08 Yeah. If you've never played this, you solve the case and then Sherlock Holmes would be like, "That's fine, but here's how you could have done it faster. Blah blah blah blah. If you had readily gone to these three places, you would have solved it quicker, you fools." Yes, right.

59:21 Yeah. Junior Gumshoe. But anyway, yeah, everything Mike said, I I agree, Mike. This is a This is a winner and it's very much inspired. The Exit games, the Unlocks, those Murder by Mail things, so much so much story now in in board games. Comes from here, I think. My number three is the oldest game on my list and it will not be a crossover with you guys because I taught this to you all and you all weren't very impressed with it. From 1955, but this game was way ahead of its time and this is Careers. So, Careers, which is a roll and move game, but has you pick your victory conditions. No one had ever done such a thing before. You would upgrade and get special abilities and be able to spend a card instead of moving a die. There was so many facets where this game was just very different from the other games that were out during the '50s, of which you'll notice we haven't put any on our list. The '50s was a dreary time for board gaming.

1:00:19 Um, but Careers was a bright spot. I know you guys didn't love it that much. That's I'm not even saying it's a great game, although I do have a soft spot for it. It's where I played it. You know, doesn't doesn't the times as a kid, right? But But I do think objectively it was definitely ahead of its time. There wasn't other games that did The idea that you just picked your victory condition at the beginning was mind-boggling.

1:00:40 Right. Right. And that was like what? The Game of Life was probably the most famous one after that that did that kind of thing where you can choose your

1:00:47 think it was Ticket to Ride Rails and Sails. Well, anyway, my number three, Careers. All right, my number two, we've all just established that the 1950s were a dead zone for board games, but 1949, baby, wow, what a year. You're way You're way back in the old days there.

1:01:18 Well, you know, one gets older. Um, this is uh you mentioned Sleuth, which I think is a really good uh who who picked Sleuth? I did. Yeah, it's a it's a obviously a good choice and I would not argue against that but I think a little bit earlier than that deduction using a sheet of paper is Clue. I think that this is the first of these types of games and and you still a lot of times when you're doing a deduction game you've got a sheet of paper and you're crossing things off and you're taking notes and this to me is like the kind of the earliest you know Sleuth went into more you know it was much more complex and there was more active deduction going on.

1:01:58 is the the roll and move part of this they just didn't know any better yet I think. I agree. But you're right that like that part the note taking crossing referencing listening to other people and going like oh okay. Right. Yeah, you're right.

1:02:11 Yeah. I mean I wouldn't have put this on my list but Yeah. No, this yeah I mean because deduction is still like I said it's very popular right now and it doesn't stray too far other than the roll and move right but as far as like what you're trying to do who did this where did they do it how did they do it it's you know Mystery of the Abbey did used it and it's used still all the time so Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:02:34 There you go. My number two is Clue or Cluedo if you are from Europe. All right. That's how I say it yeah. Number two number two for me is a crossover with Tom. And this is Barbarossa. Oh my gosh I can't believe this one crossed over.

1:02:55 Yes sir. I'm actually And this is I wrote exactly that what Mike said precursor to the Dixit rule which is finding the sweet spot. You don't want people to guess your thing too early. You don't want people to guess your thing too late. Nothing else until Dixit was really doing that. This idea of don't be too obvious don't be too obscure. Yeah. And then Dixit hit and then every other party game was a find the sweet spot game. But this did it in the '80s.

1:03:24 Yeah. And nobody, you know, copied that until Dixit, and then from there it kind of took off again. So, yeah, this one felt to me way ahead of the curve. Um And yes, the rules are a little clunky. It, you know, it should have been a cleaner game if it wanted to catch on as a party game. Yeah. But yeah, way ahead of the

1:03:42 doesn't look like a party game.

1:03:43 des Jahres or was nominated? It had to be nominated. Yeah. Yeah. Uh anyway, number two, crossover with Tom, everything he said as well, Barbarossa. All right, my number two is A GAME I'M FLABBERGASTED WASN'T ON MIKE'S LIST.

1:03:54 just missed it.

1:03:54 No, you didn't. You just picked a different game instead. This was eight years before the real cooperative game genre started, and this is Dr. Reiner Knizia's Lord of the Rings.

1:04:04 I almost picked it, but I thought I thought that Arkham was earlier.

1:04:07 is This game almost just This started a genre, but then didn't.

1:04:12 You're right. Right.

1:04:13 It was so weird. This game has the bad thing happens, you do the good thing. The bad thing happens, you do the good thing. You work together. You trade cards. It has so many concepts. Pandemic is the game that made the genre bigger. Right.

1:04:24 In between Pandemic and this, there was a couple of uh semi-co-op, The Shadows over Camelot and the uh Battlestar Galactica.

1:04:31 Sure. A few of those, but in Fury of Dracula, was very was so Ameritrash. Mhm. This game was a straight co-op. When you told people about it, they were like, "What? A game is co-op?" You're right.

1:04:42 weird to them. The only co-op game that people knew before this was a dungeon crawl, which Arkham Horror felt sort of like.

1:04:48 kind of liked that, yeah. Um so, this I thought just really set that standard of hey, this is what a cooperative game is, and then no one did anything for the next eight years.

1:04:56 maybe I shouldn't have second-guessed myself, cuz I was very clearly considered it.

1:04:59 have made fun of you if you picked Knizia, so you were in a lose-lose situation. I was in a lose-lose situation.

1:05:04 But the The Lord of the Rings I I really think was way ahead of its time, too.

1:05:25 Oof. Man, that was quite a gamble. Yeah, baby. All right, my number one your oldest one is from 1903. And I really

1:05:35 game? No, it is it is a card game.

1:05:38 Wait, you said no.

1:05:38 one of two things and I can't remember which is the one that came out in '03. So, it's either I'm going to say Pit. Milbourne or Pit. Well, Milbourne is trash. It's Pit. It's Pit. Think about it. REAL TIME. IT HAD THE OLDEST PICTURE OF PIT. Real time, negotiation, trading. I mean, and you were talking about the the kind of the the wacky crazy cut This is that, too, right? This is the rockest Well, since Saxon took it from this. I wouldn't surprise me. I I mean, I didn't put this with any irony whatsoever. I really feel this game was way ahead of its time.

1:06:13 Sure, sure. So, many of the things that Pit does

1:06:16 it, for sure. But, Yeah, this

1:06:18 But, yeah. Nobody remember any of them, probably, you know.

1:06:22 Yeah, it's interesting how this one I mean, when I was a kid, we played it. This was our New Year's Eve party game.

1:06:27 Yeah, yeah. It was just like I said, it's that you don't have a lot of those early games that are real time, negotiation, trading, where where really all of what's happening is above the table type of a thing. You know what I mean? It also brought in the concept of adding a bell Yeah. to your games. I still remember my mom hit the bell so hard that it stuck to her hand, and when she came up it it went up and made a small dent in our ceiling. And she was bleeding profusely at the table. Everyone screamed in terror. Happy New Year. No, Pit yeah, I don't know. This just seemed like uh This is a good yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's good. That's good. Um This is another crossover number one?

1:07:08 My number one should be a crossover with you, I'm guessing for your number one. I I really waffle between two games.

1:07:14 you? Because I can't put the same game on every list. Why not? This is the one it belongs on, okay?

1:07:20 Well, I put this on my short list. Actually, I there were I can't do it. You didn't do it? There were three

1:07:26 a very similar game. You'll see. There were three games I considered for what you're doing, and I didn't choose any of them.

1:07:30 is Cosmic Encounter. Cosmic Encounter is the or one of the original asymmetric games.

1:07:37 year? 77, I think. Um This is that idea of you have a unique power for the game that is now everywhere. Kind of Magic the Gathering was sort of inspired by this, and then everything was inspired by Magic the Gathering. So, it's a two-step process, kind of like verification.

1:07:55 years before Magic Gathering, or well, 18 or whatever.

1:07:57 Anyway, you've heard of Cosmic Encounter. It's every everything afterwards that has characters that you are and give you special abilities can comes from this. Just like 98% of that comes from this. And that's a lot of games that do that. So, there's not a whole lot else to say. I'm I'm flabbergasted by that.

1:08:20 It came out 2 years after this.

1:08:21 Is it from the same people?

1:08:22 It is.

1:08:23 Yeah. Okay, fine.

1:08:24 fine. I I put put Dune because I think

1:08:26 What about Ogre? Cuz you could have put Ogre, too. Dune is like the poor man's Cosmic Encounter. If you feel like you put Cosmic Encounter in too many lists, you put it Dune on this one. There's a little bit of that involved here, but Dune also had this idea of it was a this dudes on a map mixed with this. Also introduced the traitor mechanism, which was a really cool concept that again didn't really become a thing till years later. This idea of traders in games. It also took a theme and made it fun. If I don't know if you all played

1:08:58 okay.

1:08:59 games in the '70s and '80s based on say TV shows and movies.

1:09:02 Right. all trash. Combine the fun of all of them. Except for the Welcome Back Kotter game. That was awesome, okay? Up your nose with a rubber hose. Yep. This was yeah. My number one is Dune, but I would have put I wasn't going to put them both on the list cuz that they're too similar in many ways, but yeah, these guys these designers There's some designers who are if we said designers ahead of their time that's Sid Sackson, Alex Randolph. Yep.

1:09:25 These three guys group yeah yeah yeah. They were just way ahead of their time with all their designs. Yep. Okay. Doo doo doo. There are lots of games though

1:09:35 Yeah. that I thought about and didn't put on my list. We'll mention a few of them for our viewers and our Patreon backers. So, check that out. But until next time I'm Tom Vasel. I'm Zee Garcia.

1:09:46 I'm Mike Gillsio. Bye. We'll see you all we're ahead of our time.

1:10:13 Hey folks, I'm Tom Vasel. Thanks for watching this video. Check out our channel. We have a lot of videos on our channel. We have live videos that go up each week from live Q&A's to videos where we take a look at the newest stuff on Kickstarter, crowd serving, to top 10 lists and more. Lots of stuff on this channel. We encourage you to explore it. You can find out more at our website dicetower.com. I'm Tom Vasel. Thanks for watching another video on the Dice Tower.